Arc Fault in stairways and Mech rms

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dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
I questioned an inspector about this and he wouldn't even hear it......Resy stairways, are they required to be arc fault? it isnt listed exactly, it does say areas similar......but is a stairwell similar? I also questioned a room that the HVAC equi. and the hot water heater......

What do you think?
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
What circuit do you have in mind for it ? Seems like stairways would be close to another room that requires one anyways. And i do think it would require it anyways.
 

dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
Hear me out.........a stairway and a hallway a two different things. Isn't there a safty issue if you are walking up or down a set of stairs and someone pulls a running vaccum or a lamp while its on and the cur trips and you are dark on a set of stairs in your house?
 
Jim
Have you read 210.12(B) of the '08 NEC?

"...hallways, or similar rooms or areas..."


There is a possibility the mechanical room may be required to be on an AFCI protected circuit - if the wiring supplying the mechanical room is from a room or area required to be protected itself.
 

dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
Why doesn't it say stairways? A hallway is an area connecting rooms. So is a stairway similar? I really don't think they are similar.Does this make sense to anyone else?
 

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Hear me out.........a stairway and a hallway a two different things. Isn't there a safty issue if you are walking up or down a set of stairs and someone pulls a running vaccum or a lamp while its on and the cur trips and you are dark on a set of stairs in your house?

Only a slight safety issue, IMO less than having an arc sustained in the outlet box serving that vacuum.

Of course, you don't have to put receptacles on the lighting circuits, either.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Is an office in a home a "similar" room?

Does an office in a home have to meet 210.52 requirements? If yes, I think AFCI should also be required.

Just looking for other opinions on this.

My opinion is if the room can be easily called a bedroom then it should be treated like a bedroom. If it has permanent desk, or other built in office furnishings then 210.52 requirements should not need to apply and don't know what I think about AFCI requirements.

Maybe I should have started a new thread with this but it is somewhat on topic.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Is an office in a home a "similar" room?

Does an office in a home have to meet 210.52 requirements? If yes, I think AFCI should also be required.

Just looking for other opinions on this.

My opinion is if the room can be easily called a bedroom then it should be treated like a bedroom. If it has permanent desk, or other built in office furnishings then 210.52 requirements should not need to apply and don't know what I think about AFCI requirements.

Maybe I should have started a new thread with this but it is somewhat on topic.

Yes still needs afci and spacing as an office in a house does not mean it is a commercial building. And we all know its use is subject to change. And if it has a clothes closet you need smokes too.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes still needs afci and spacing as an office in a house does not mean it is a commercial building. And we all know its use is subject to change. And if it has a clothes closet you need smokes too.

No it would not mean it is a commercial building but it is a different type of use room or area that could have different requirements. If you have a permanently installed countertop in a horseshoe shape with two workstations the room is no longer a bedroom. I suppose you can call it a den which is mentioned in 210.52(A).

There are commercial buildings with dwelling spaces within them why can't there be dwellings with non dwelling spaces within them? NEC article 100 definition of a dwelling unit does not contain the word building or other words that mean building.

The use of a space in any building is subject to change. When it changes if required, file your permits and do it right for the changes.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
I really don't like that phrase 'similar rooms' IMO a stairway is diffent from a hallway.

Could some other considerations be make for some of the following similar room names not always "called out" or exactly addressed; an entrance, a causeway, an atrium, a vestibule, and my favorite that you might see only on older drawings, ante.

'Similar rooms', one has to account for everything that inside the square footage of the structure, don't we?

I'd just consider it a convience outlet and address the other issues accordingly. :D
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
No it would not mean it is a commercial building but it is a different type of use room or area that could have different requirements. If you have a permanently installed countertop in a horseshoe shape with two workstations the room is no longer a bedroom. I suppose you can call it a den which is mentioned in 210.52(A).

There are commercial buildings with dwelling spaces within them why can't there be dwellings with non dwelling spaces within them? NEC article 100 definition of a dwelling unit does not contain the word building or other words that mean building.

The use of a space in any building is subject to change. When it changes if required, file your permits and do it right for the changes.

Yes if it is a fixed desk then it creates an opening in the wall space. Your 6 feet begins from both sides. Now please tell me why you would wish to do this. Who would not want at least 1 receptacle at the desk ? If anything it is likely you will be needing an extra receptacle. This opening is similar to a fireflace or book shelf. If its in a dwelling 210.52 still applies. You might manage to save 1 receptacle but it will likely leave you without 1 at the desk. And you just made a very costly problem for the owner if use ever changes. This would need shown on the approved prints and room designated as office. If you wish to say it is not a room covered by 210.52 then you would need call it commercial and likely need a seperate permit and zoning. Hardly seems worth the problems you create.
 

Hendrix

Senior Member
Location
New England
Why doesn't it say stairways? A hallway is an area connecting rooms. So is a stairway similar? I really don't think they are similar.Does this make sense to anyone else?
Are you refering to stairway outlets, such as lights and receptacles? If so, just keep the receptacle out of it and afci the lights.
 
I really don't like that phrase 'similar rooms' IMO a stairway is diffent from a hallway.


What if this is a large house. This large house has a large foyer to enter the dwelling. Would you say it is a 'similar' room or area? or just say it does not require AFCI protection.


As guidance, and guidance only. If you take a peek at the locations where AFCI protection is not required (GFCI protection generally is required), I think it may be easier for you to see the stairway typically does not require GFCI protection, so it falls under AFCI. Remember, I said to use this as guidance...;)
 
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