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Thread: outdoor romex in pvc pipe run underground

  1. #1

    outdoor romex in pvc pipe run underground

    Hi all,

    I am trying to do some work for dad and have figured out what i want to
    do, but my lack of experience has me asking several questions.

    Circuit #1 is for a maximum 2 hp water well to the house. I will be using outdoor rated romex. From the main breaker, we will run approx 150 ft. This distance is mostly inside the house. We then go outside and down one of the 2 x 8 rafters (along the center) on the carport. From there i plan on running the romex inside pvc pipe underground approx 4 ft so i can get to the well house disconnect. Total length inside the pvc pipe is 20 ft.

    Since this is 125 - 150 ft, will i need to goto #8 due to wire length?
    If so, can my main beraker will be 40 amp and the breaker at the pump will be 30 amps?
    Can this be done with outdoor rated romex or do i need to jave a junction box
    and splice the romex to thwn wire?

    The next cable running along the same path is for an ac welder.
    The input current is 42.5 amps. I was going to run a # 6 romex using the 75 degree column rated 65 amps, or should i go with #4 due to the length?

    The size of the conduit i am planning to use is 1 1/2" based on fill.

    all comments are much appreciated.

    thanks in advance,
    jimmy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    25,230
    you cannot use nm in conduit outside where subject to moisture. Underground is considered a wet location so NM is out. You can switch over to UF or run UF the entire way.
    Read art. 300.9

  3. #3
    so could i use romex and go into a junction box and then splice into thwn wire?
    Am i correct with my other plans as far as wire size?

    thanks,
    jimmy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    25,230
    Jimmy, I am having a hard time with what you are doing. It sounds like you have 2 feeds going out to a structure. This is a violation. This is not a simple install and I am afraid that being an electricians helper this may be beyond your reach.

    Try and give a better picture of this scenario.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    2,357
    wire a sub panel.
    Unlimited Electric Contractor/Standard Electric Inspector/Traffic Signal Inspector/Highway Lighting and Level One Traffic Signal Installer.

    I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Raeford, NC
    Posts
    3,423
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy_mcquade View Post
    Hi all,

    I am trying to do some work for dad and have figured out what i want to
    do, but my lack of experience has me asking several questions.

    Circuit #1 is for a maximum 2 hp water well to the house. I will be using outdoor rated romex. From the main breaker, we will run approx 150 ft. This distance is mostly inside the house. We then go outside and down one of the 2 x 8 rafters (along the center) on the carport. From there i plan on running the romex inside pvc pipe underground approx 4 ft so i can get to the well house disconnect. Total length inside the pvc pipe is 20 ft.

    Since this is 125 - 150 ft, will i need to goto #8 due to wire length?
    If so, can my main beraker will be 40 amp and the breaker at the pump will be 30 amps?
    Can this be done with outdoor rated romex or do i need to jave a junction box
    and splice the romex to thwn wire?

    The next cable running along the same path is for an ac welder.
    The input current is 42.5 amps. I was going to run a # 6 romex using the 75 degree column rated 65 amps, or should i go with #4 due to the length?

    The size of the conduit i am planning to use is 1 1/2" based on fill.

    all comments are much appreciated.

    thanks in advance,
    jimmy
    Jimmy, first you need to get your termanology correct. Romex is a trade name. There is no outdoor rated Romex. Art.334 for NM cable read its permitted and not permitted uses. then look at Art. 340 for underground cable.
    You did not state the voltage of the water pump so lets say it is 240v the amps would be around 12amp. If your longest run is indoors then you can run #10 NM (Romex) to a junction box then change to #10 UF to make the transition to underground direct buried. On a 20amp breaker. The only thing the #10 will do is keep you from having too much voltage drop.
    You need to supply more info on the welder such as duty cycle.

    As Dennis said if these two are going to the same structure then it is a violation.
    Organized people are people that are just too lazy to look for their stuff

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Tampa Florida
    Posts
    8,009
    Perhaps your boss will help you lay this out on paper or even another electrician you work under or with. Its great that you want to help your dad but you likely do not have the skill level yet to do this alone.
    As mentioned if both are going to same location then you already have a violation with 2 circuits.

  8. #8
    Thanks for the replies.

    The voltage of the water pump is 240 volts with a maximum of 2 hp
    and this is a dedicated circuit.

    The ac welder is also 240 volts, 42.5 amps input, 30% duty cycle and has 2 weldng ranges, 0-125 amps and 70-225 amps. The output of the welder is ac, dc only welding rod do not work. The circuit is also dedicated to the welder only. The welder is only used occasionally used for
    repairs on the farm.

    I hope this additional information helps.

    thanks again,
    jimmy

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Jimmy, I am having a hard time with what you are doing. It sounds like you have 2 feeds going out to a structure. This is a violation. This is not a simple install and I am afraid that being an electricians helper this may be beyond your reach.

    Try and give a better picture of this scenario.
    how is having two feeds a violation

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Jimmy, I am having a hard time with what you are doing. It sounds like you have 2 feeds going out to a structure. This is a violation. This is not a simple install and I am afraid that being an electricians helper this may be beyond your reach.

    Try and give a better picture of this scenario.
    how is having two feeds a violation?

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