Who is running things anyway ?

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Smash

Senior Member
Safety safety safety is all you here. A little kid in Detroit sticks a fork in a receptacle and BAM!!!we write new code and tamper resistant is born. A carpenter in a hurry tells the electrician he will install the receptacles in the new home so he can get a check at the end of the week. Fast forward six months and there's a fire in the dining room because the carpenter forced # 12 into the back of a receptacle quick connect Can someone really truly tell me who is running things the inspectors who are all about safety at any cost.(or how much does safety cost this month) Or the manufacturer of devices who now make tamper resistant with the same should have been outlawed 20yrs ago quick connects. One little example of who we all know drives the industry. Money and greed no one gives a rats ass about the kid in Detroit or it would have been done a long time ago. It's about selling product. Can't wait for the next genius inspector that if you look close at his credentials actually works for Leiviton or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've troubleshot brand new million dollar homes where a wire pulls out of the back quick connect burning up until it's discovered. Don't eliminate the quick connect let's make everyone put in arc fault protection. As long as things can be made cheap quick and easy people will always go that route. If one company decided safety first no more quick connects but company B keeps making quick connect devices. Which company sells more ? So when the next code update comes out and the safety only conscience inspectors are shouting from there soap boxes look closely at there feet it's not a soap box at all but a stack of cash.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Adequacy. This Code contains provisions considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
A carpenter in a hurry tells the electrician he will install the receptacles in the new home so he can get a check at the end of the week.

Any self respecting EC going to agree w/ that potential liability?- Someone else who isn't licensed is going to do part of /finish the job?:happyno:

We do have contracts....

And the GC can always be run in for unlicensed work....

C'mon :)

Can someone really truly tell me who is running things the inspectors who are all about safety at any cost.(or how much does safety cost this month) Or the manufacturer of devices who now make tamper resistant with the same should have been outlawed 20yrs ago quick connects. One little example of who we all know drives the industry. Money and greed no one gives a rats a** about the kid in Detroit or it would have been done a long time ago. It's about selling product. Can't wait for the next genius inspector that if you look close at his credentials actually works for Leiviton or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've troubleshot brand new million dollar homes where a wire pulls out of the back quick connect burning up until it's discovered. Don't eliminate the quick connect let's make everyone put in arc fault protection.

IMPO, backstabs should be banned from existence, or at the very least for feed thru- I don't like the connection. I do concede the point however made by the guys above about screw failures, and besides how often do the general use 15a circuits (the only ckts these devices are installed on) in a modern house see enough physical activity to loosen the connections or a sustained high enough load (most prolly no more than a few amps) to cause issues w/ these devices?



As long as things can be made cheap quick and easy people will always go that route.

NO kidding.

Ever wired tract housing? The goal is quantity, not quality. Of course the GC could pay more for the screw wrappers, now get somebody to do just that.:D
 
Last edited:

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Safety safety safety is all you here. A little kid in Detroit sticks a fork in a receptacle and BAM!!!we write new code and tamper resistant is born. A carpenter in a hurry tells the electrician he will install the receptacles in the new home so he can get a check at the end of the week. Fast forward six months and there's a fire in the dining room because the carpenter forced # 12 into the back of a receptacle quick connect Can someone really truly tell me who is running things the inspectors who are all about safety at any cost.(or how much does safety cost this month) Or the manufacturer of devices who now make tamper resistant with the same should have been outlawed 20yrs ago quick connects. One little example of who we all know drives the industry. Money and greed no one gives a rats ass about the kid in Detroit or it would have been done a long time ago. It's about selling product. Can't wait for the next genius inspector that if you look close at his credentials actually works for Leiviton or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've troubleshot brand new million dollar homes where a wire pulls out of the back quick connect burning up until it's discovered. Don't eliminate the quick connect let's make everyone put in arc fault protection. As long as things can be made cheap quick and easy people will always go that route. If one company decided safety first no more quick connects but company B keeps making quick connect devices. Which company sells more ? So when the next code update comes out and the safety only conscience inspectors are shouting from there soap boxes look closely at there feet it's not a soap box at all but a stack of cash.

So we can assume you are an Electrician and all the work you do is for Free and out of the goodness of your heart right. Clearly you are expressing your opinion and again entitled as such. However, I disagree and will leave it at that. You make a lot of assumptions about the people who make efforts to make codes better and safer but do not actually back any of the information you rant about up.

I see you have an affection (maybe not) for back wiring and quick connect devices. Can you cite any issue where the fire was attributed to them directly as a result of their faulty manufacturing process or is it possible they were installed incorrectly as well and it is just easier to point fingers at the easy target. Greed you say....in a country where capitalism is king and you have the right to charge humble fees or outrageous services for needless add-ons....you thus have the right to do so and thank god you do.

Also considering the majority of inspectors make very humble wages...to think those "conscience inspectors" are reaping the rewards of your failed inspection is completely a fantasy. But hey......I am (as you) entitled to that opinion that is in disagreement with you.

Opps...Guess I did not leave it at that....My Bad!
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
So we can assume you are an Electrician and all the work you do is for Free and out of the goodness of your heart right. Clearly you are expressing your opinion and again entitled as such. However, I disagree and will leave it at that. You make a lot of assumptions about the people who make efforts to make codes better and safer but do not actually back any of the information you rant about up.

I see you have an affection (maybe not) for back wiring and quick connect devices. Can you cite any issue where the fire was attributed to them directly as a result of their faulty manufacturing process or is it possible they were installed incorrectly as well and it is just easier to point fingers at the easy target. Greed you say....in a country where capitalism is king and you have the right to charge humble fees or outrageous services for needless add-ons....you thus have the right to do so and thank god you do.

Also considering the majority of inspectors make very humble wages...to think those "conscience inspectors" are reaping the rewards of your failed inspection is completely a fantasy. But hey......I am (as you) entitled to that opinion that is in disagreement with you.

Opps...Guess I did not leave it at that....My Bad!

Gotta say Mr. Master, I think your tone may be a little strong, but when you are right you're right, and this time I think you are.
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Gotta say Mr. Master, I think your tone may be a little strong, but when you are right you're right, and this time I think you are.
WHAT... me have a tone.....no way.

Basically the tone was set by the OP...mine is just a rigid response. I am sure at some point it will be deleted anyway by some fans ( that was a snarky comment) no doubt.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards; it makes them soggy and hard to light.
(A slight variation from the more comon "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and slow to forget.")
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Last night I was a witness to an improper installation of a quality red wirenut. It only cost someone around $500 to $600 to find it and get the power back on for the emergency after-hours call.

I'm sure whoever roughed and trimmed that remodel was very reasonably priced...
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Last night I was a witness to an improper installation of a quality red wirenut. It only cost someone around $500 to $600 to find it and get the power back on for the emergency after-hours call.

I'm sure whoever roughed and trimmed that remodel was very reasonably priced...
I can tell you...those "wirenuts", which are a trademark of Ideal and clearly quite pricey...At least they didn't opt for a cheap "wire binding device" from another manufacturer.....could have saved them.........pennies on the dollar.:angel:
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards; it makes them soggy and hard to light.
(A slight variation from the more comon "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and slow to forget.")

or: Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
You, the inspector, the customer or I really can not do anything about poor workmanship. I as the inspector can not inspect every wire nut connection and can not red tag a job that has .$49 receptacles and the quick connect wire connectors.

IMO, it is up to the customer to ask for a better service with long term workmanship warranty. And up to us as the electrical community to provide that service. At the same time report any unlicensed activity to the proper authority. Then again having a state contractor license does not mean anything.

So at the end, If I install to the best of my ability and provide a 10 year workmanship warranty, I know I have done my best and can sleep at night. The customers that I have lost to low bidders, they will learn their lesson sooner or later. The installer that does the low crap install with the cheapest material, well... he will keep doing it because he knows that there are people who don't know any better and just have their eyes on the bottom dollar.

So the cycle continues....
 

stevenje

Senior Member
Location
Yachats Oregon
Safety safety safety is all you here. A little kid in Detroit sticks a fork in a receptacle and BAM!!!we write new code and tamper resistant is born. A carpenter in a hurry tells the electrician he will install the receptacles in the new home so he can get a check at the end of the week. Fast forward six months and there's a fire in the dining room because the carpenter forced # 12 into the back of a receptacle quick connect Can someone really truly tell me who is running things the inspectors who are all about safety at any cost.(or how much does safety cost this month) Or the manufacturer of devices who now make tamper resistant with the same should have been outlawed 20yrs ago quick connects. One little example of who we all know drives the industry. Money and greed no one gives a rats ass about the kid in Detroit or it would have been done a long time ago. It's about selling product. Can't wait for the next genius inspector that if you look close at his credentials actually works for Leiviton or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've troubleshot brand new million dollar homes where a wire pulls out of the back quick connect burning up until it's discovered. Don't eliminate the quick connect let's make everyone put in arc fault protection. As long as things can be made cheap quick and easy people will always go that route. If one company decided safety first no more quick connects but company B keeps making quick connect devices. Which company sells more ? So when the next code update comes out and the safety only conscience inspectors are shouting from there soap boxes look closely at there feet it's not a soap box at all but a stack of cash.

If I can read between the lines, (which isn't hard pertaining to this post) it appears that your having a little trouble with the "inspection process". According to your post, inspectors are secretly on the take from electrical equipment manufactures and are receiving substantial kick backs and large sums of cash for promoting their goods.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the inspectors don't write the NEC. Their job is to enforce it, as it is written.

Take a look at your 2014 code book. Go to pages 70-10 through 70-22. These are the guys and gals who write the code. Correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt that your inspector(s) name(s) appears on this list of CMP's.

From your post, you are definitely not happy with what you perceive as a heavy hand from the manufactures in the code making process. Flip to the back of your code book to pages 12/12-A, B & C. This is where your opinion will be heard. If you feel strongly about the issues that you have posted, (which your undoubtedly do) I suggest that you fill out the appropriate paper work and let the CMP's know how you feel.

As you stated in your opening sentence of your post and I quote " Safety safety safety is all you here." Flip to page 70-23 which is Article 90 - Introduction.

90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the
practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards
arising from the use of electricity. This Code is not intended as a
design specification or an instruction manual for untrained
persons.

In a nut shell, this is the purpose of the NEC. This is why we have the NEC and inspectors to enforce it.
Like most things in life, there is good, bad and everything in between. Yes, this also includes inspectors.

I do take offense to your blanket assumption stated in your post, that inspectors have little or no integrity. This is simply not true. Some of the most honest and knowledgeable people I have met in this industry are inspectors.
 
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