12 volt car/truck battery

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why does a 12 volt battery go dead if placed on the ground or on the garage concrete floor?
I believe it is because those that put it there, forget about it. Eventually the battery will die anyway. Could be the performance of it it was already on the downslope and that is why it's there. I put them on something so any acid does not contact the floor. It does not stop eating a hole in the floor.
 

enireh

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Canyon Lake,TX
12 volt car/truck battery

Interesting thing about that is it goes dead sitting on an old stump or your kitchen counter as well.


we were working on the heads, put the battery down in the afternoon and picked up the next day about the same time and the battry was dead and it was not so old I am looking for a scientific explanation Click and Clack said they'd have to look into it
 

ActionDave

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we were working on the heads, put the battery down in the afternoon and picked up the next day about the same time and the battry was dead and it was not so old I am looking for a scientific explanation Click and Clack said they'd have to look into it

Working on the heads sounds like the hood has been up for a while. When was the last time the engine ran?
 
we were working on the heads, put the battery down in the afternoon and picked up the next day about the same time and the battry was dead and it was not so old I am looking for a scientific explanation

(Did you test the battery before putting it down?)

The scientific explanation is that the battery was already toast and leaving it off charge (and slightly colder) make it dead. There is nothing special about concrete that suck the life out of a battery, other than cold.
 

ActionDave

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I believe it is because those that put it there, forget about it. Eventually the battery will die anyway. Could be the performance of it it was already on the downslope and that is why it's there. I put them on something so any acid does not contact the floor. It does not stop eating a hole in the floor.

I've heard that old (and I mean older than you old, really old) batteries had a rubber case that would leak or discharge or some sort ill fate if stored on concrete, but that it's not an issue anymore.
 

enireh

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12 volt car/truck battery

Working on the heads sounds like the hood has been up for a while. When was the last time the engine ran?

the day before we worked on them amigo anyway, I was listening to Click and Clack "Car Talk" NPR and they were looking into a scientific explanation so I thought I'd inquire with the Holt gang and I get a hood/go fast response muchisimas gracias amigo
 

JFletcher

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Williamsburg, VA
why does a 12 volt battery go dead if placed on the ground or on the garage concrete floor?

There is nothing about a concrete floor or garage that would make a modern 12V car battery go dead, aside from possible colder temperatures. It sits connected in a metal or plastic tray in your car. What it sits on is irrelevant.

Apparently, a long time ago, this used to be true:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/battery.asp

"Car batteries used to be encased in hard rubber, a substance that was porous enough that battery acid could seep through it and create a conductive path through the damp concrete, draining the battery. The cases of today’s batteries, however, are made of sturdier stuff that far better contains their contents than those of yesteryear. As well, time has brought technological improvements to the seals around the posts and the vent systems.

These days, the problem of car battery electrolyte seepage and migration has been all but eliminated. Says battery manufacturer Yuasa, "Nowadays, containers are made from a solid plastic that does not allow any current to flow through it, so the batteries do not discharge, even if they sit in a few inches of water."

Interestingly, some experts (including Car Talk's Click and Clack) believe that storing car batteries on concrete floors might actually be a better idea than keeping them on shelves or other surfaces because the cold of the floor works to slow the self-discharge (leakage) rate."
 

iwire

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(Did you test the battery before putting it down?)

The scientific explanation is that the battery was already toast and leaving it off charge (and slightly colder) make it dead. There is nothing special about concrete that suck the life out of a battery, other than cold.

:thumbsup:
 

Besoeker

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UK
the day before we worked on them amigo anyway, I was listening to Click and Clack "Car Talk" NPR and they were looking into a scientific explanation so I thought I'd inquire with the Holt gang and I get a hood/go fast response muchisimas gracias amigo

Lead acid batteries self discharge.
 

K8MHZ

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In a former life, I was a licensed mechanic that specialized in automotive electrical systems. I spent a few years at Chrysler dealerships and was ASE certified in every automotive electrical field available.

1) Concrete floors don't harm today's batteries. That is a hold over from the days that batteries had wooden cases. The batteries are worse for the floors than the other way around.

2) Click and Clack are great entertainment, but fall shy of being true automotive experts, especially in the electrical side of things. They are strictly DIY, and iffy at that.

3) Lead acid batteries will self discharge no matter where you sit them. It's just plain physics.

4) If a battery has sulfides on the plates and it is set down abruptly on a hard surface, the sulfides can break free and sink to the bottom, shorting out the plates and killing the battery. That may be one reason the myth about concrete prevails.
 

kwired

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NE Nebraska
4) If a battery has sulfides on the plates and it is set down abruptly on a hard surface, the sulfides can break free and sink to the bottom, shorting out the plates and killing the battery. That may be one reason the myth about concrete prevails.

Would seem if the battery were actually in use in the vehicle the same thing could happen from hitting a hard bump in the road.
 

K8MHZ

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Would seem if the battery were actually in use in the vehicle the same thing could happen from hitting a hard bump in the road.

I am sure it sometimes does, but the shock from a concrete floor is much worse than it would be from a piece of sheet metal over a spring and shock suspended car body with air filled tires.

What would you rather hit your head on? Try to break a cue ball by throwing is as hard as you can on the battery box. Then try the same thing on a concrete floor.

Edit to add: Heck, try the same thing with a battery. Drop a battery from 3-4 feet so it lands on the battery tray. Examine for damage. Then, drop the battery from 3-4 feet onto a concrete floor. Check for damage. I'll bet it's impossible to crack a battery case by hitting it on a tray repeatedly, but easily done by smashing the battery onto the concrete.
 
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kwired

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Location
NE Nebraska
I am sure it sometimes does, but the shock from a concrete floor is much worse than it would be from a piece of sheet metal over a spring and shock suspended car body with air filled tires.

What would you rather hit your head on? Try to break a cue ball by throwing is as hard as you can on the battery box. Then try the same thing on a concrete floor.
True the vehicle battery is somewhat protected by the vehicle suspension, you still get some pretty hard shocks to anything in the vehicle in some off road applications, or even the public county roads around here.:blink:

Now leave same battery somewhat loosely laying in a bed in a pickup truck and it may bounce enough to get some more shock to loosen things on the plates.
 

GoldDigger

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...

...
4) If a battery has sulfides on the plates and it is set down abruptly on a hard surface, the sulfides can break free and sink to the bottom, shorting out the plates and killing the battery. That may be one reason the myth about concrete prevails.
The crystals that form on the lead plate are lead sulphate, not lead sulfide. Once tightly crystallized they are essentially non conductive (which is why they kill battery capacity when they cannot be removed during recharging.)
On the other hand the lead and lead oxide active material in the plated can be broken off, to fall to the bottom to short out the cell. Lead oxide is especially likely to break off if the battery is consistently and severely overcharged.


mobile
 
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K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
The crystals that form on the lead plate are lead sulphate, not lead sulfide. One tightly crystallized they are essentially non conductive (which is why they kill battery capacity when they cannot be removed during recharging.)
On the other hand the lead and lead oxide active material in the plated can be broken off, to fall to the bottom to short out the cell. Lead oxide is especially likely to break off if the battery is consistently and severely overcharged.


mobile

I bow to your wisdom, it likely is the lead oxide that ruins the battery. I also get my sulphates and sulfides confused.
 
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