Is current Code required??

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I know this is mostly an AHJ question, but I like to get other opinions as well.

There were some emergency battery lights installed to replace the old existing ones. The issue I have is that these are NOT on the lighting circuit as per 700.12(F)... The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area......

I know these are just replacements (same locations as the old ones) and even though the branch circuit is not being altered in any way. But it just seems to me that this would be 'worthless' or futile since these lights will not come on when the normal lighting loses its power and it pertains to life safety.

Would current code be enforceable in this application in your area even though this is existing circuitry??? basically replacing 'like kind for like kind'. ;)
 

Hendrix

Senior Member
Location
New England
I know this is mostly an AHJ question, but I like to get other opinions as well.

There were some emergency battery lights installed to replace the old existing ones. The issue I have is that these are NOT on the lighting circuit as per 700.12(F)... The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area......

I know these are just replacements (same locations as the old ones) and even though the branch circuit is not being altered in any way. But it just seems to me that this would be 'worthless' or futile since these lights will not come on when the normal lighting loses its power and it pertains to life safety.

Would current code be enforceable in this application in your area even though this is existing circuitry??? basically replacing 'like kind for like kind'. ;)
I would notify the fire dept. and they would ultimately decide.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
we must think about why we have them to start with. Yes need to be on same circuit or pointless to even have them. Can not assume total loss of power. They are backup for the lights normally on that circuit.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I know this is mostly an AHJ question, but I like to get other opinions as well.

There were some emergency battery lights installed to replace the old existing ones. The issue I have is that these are NOT on the lighting circuit as per 700.12(F)... The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area......

I know these are just replacements (same locations as the old ones) and even though the branch circuit is not being altered in any way. But it just seems to me that this would be 'worthless' or futile since these lights will not come on when the normal lighting loses its power and it pertains to life safety.

Would current code be enforceable in this application in your area even though this is existing circuitry??? basically replacing 'like kind for like kind'. ;)

In New Jersey, the rehab code would not require you to re-circuit the e-lights to meet this requirement unless the requirement was in effect at the time of the original install and somebody just made an oops, and maybe not even then if it's not an iminent danger or doesn't increase the original degree of non-compliance.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
First, when the building your in was built, it met the Codes of that day, I mean all applicable Codes were met to put up whatever type of building or Class of structure it was. Dare I say that they were even designed with it 700.1 Scope in mind!
I’m going to state that you need to re-read 700.12 thru to (A). Please note that (F) is addressed in this article.
Now go read 700.1 Scope down to the bottom, but not the FPN, notes.

Only when they add an addition or gut a building, change its usage, does the AHJ have the right to require changes of exit illumination among other things…

Now generally the averages steps are as to the followed; design, engineered, submittal for both clients (needs) and whatever or whomever the proper authorities are AHJ (again with respects of the FPN’s of 700.1 in mind).

This is where the Building Code requirements kick in. Now read 700.1 FPN’s, your AHJ is a reviewer and enforcer of this and their and other codes. They get to say what your building is!
They also get to make waivers with sound judgments considering all the aspects of a job being reviewed! This is not always a sure bet to get a waiver.

Now if you are working in an area that is an addition or to be an addition to the structure, the addition might or
might require a change of the exit illumination and the other requirements.

The Reviewer should address requirements of “700” and will kick in as part of the process of reviewing the engineered drawing, and need and make comments to be addressed.

What changes of the new addition per this engineered structure (maybe even class of structure) changes that effect anything in 700, this is where the AHJ address’s the requirements.

Your AHJ is a reviewer and enforcer of their and the applicable codes(plumbing, A/C, structural, etc). Most times the design will match the existing class of structure with the addition sometimes they will not.
But in general the engineered building today needs to meet all the Codes per it own requirements, much like the opening lines.

A fine example is where the two building come (in respects to an addition) together their might be two block walls(back to back), one to preserve the rating of the existing structure) and one for the addition to present its required (“class of structure-rating) of its area. Now right here some may argue that it’s two separate structures, but where is the power coming from, in most cases it’s from the same one source. One is allowed to preserve the existing nature of the existing building but just the same 700 is always lurking. In most but not all cases if the new addition to the building has a higher demand as described in 700.1(total) then it is applicable to cause changes that have to be implemented throughout both the new and older structure. But not always...

While the FPN are directional in nature, one savvy person doesn’t need to go to the particulars that are addressed there to understand what they need. But if you are in one of these building then yes in fact then go to the exact FPN to further understanding of the types of applications and the requirements.

Now say your building is under the size of what is described in 700.12, which it is what you’re in, I beleive. Well won’t 700.12(F) be your out. It needs powered exit illumination, with other conditions met or not met/required (required as by the article 700)what is one to do, IMO the use what 700.12(F) gives us what needs to be done.

[qoute] But it just seems to me that this would be 'worthless' or futile since these lights will not come on when the normal lighting loses its power and it pertains to life safety.[/quote]

Wow this really got to me, when do you think the things will turn on?

Your building doesn’t have emergency backup service (a generator), how else are you to get exit illumination?

This is a battery back-up device, install them (make sure battery is hooked up and gets a full charge) and turn off the circuit off. Bingo exit lights…

:)
 

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
I know this is mostly an AHJ question, but I like to get other opinions as well.

There were some emergency battery lights installed to replace the old existing ones. The issue I have is that these are NOT on the lighting circuit as per 700.12(F)... The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area......

I know these are just replacements (same locations as the old ones) and even though the branch circuit is not being altered in any way. But it just seems to me that this would be 'worthless' or futile since these lights will not come on when the normal lighting loses its power and it pertains to life safety.

Would current code be enforceable in this application in your area even though this is existing circuitry??? basically replacing 'like kind for like kind'. ;)


Code allows the egress to be on it's own circuit if there are more than (3) lighting circuits. How many do you have in this building?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
700.12(F) Unit Equipment...................The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches. The branch circuit that feeds unit equipment shall be clearly identified at the distribution panel..............

Exception: In a separate and uninterrupted area supplied by a minimum of three normal lighting circuits, a separate branch circuit for unit equipment shall be permitted if it originates from the same panelboard as that of the normal lighting circuits and is provided with a lock-on feature
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
700.12(F) Unit Equipment...................The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches. The branch circuit that feeds unit equipment shall be clearly identified at the distribution panel..............

Exception: In a separate and uninterrupted area supplied by a minimum of three normal lighting circuits, a separate branch circuit for unit equipment shall be permitted if it originates from the same panelboard as that of the normal lighting circuits and is provided with a lock-on feature

I see a flaw in what there saying. I understand theory on 3 circuit cause chances are slim all 3 would go dead without total power outage, but they could all 3 go out if on lets say phase A and the EM is on B or C. Perhaps CMP needs to think it out
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
Code allows the egress to be on it's own circuit if there are more than (3) lighting circuits. How many do you have in this building?

700.12(F) Unit Equipment.The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches. The branch circuit that feeds unit equipment shall be clearly identified at the distribution panel.

Exception: In a separate and uninterrupted area supplied by a minimum of three normal lighting circuits, a separate branch circuit for unit equipment shall be permitted if it originates from the same panelboard as that of the normal lighting circuits and is provided with a lock-on feature.

The exception reads to me to say that the 3 circuits have to be in the same room not the same building.
 
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