Electrical Contracting consist of what and does not include what.

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tadavidson

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
A local plumber contracted with a local business to replace a number of 2x4 lay in fixtures. What actually, in your state, defines the need for State License and what does your local AHJ do to assist you in ridding the problem of hackers.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Technically any trade work requires a license in my area. As for the local AHJ's, it varies widely, but I would never "drop a dime" on someone anyway.
 

angus1

Member
Location
Boston
SO why did I do 10000 hours to get my masters license in MA. when a plumber is doing electrical work? And the state board is chasing electricians because their truck isn't lettered properly! HELLO
I started in this trade in the early eighties and have seen ups and downs
i read posts on this forum of guys questioning why another's mans quote is so much.
People, you can charge higher rates, do less work, and make more PROFIT
Allowing other trades to do our work is crazy
The goal is to make more
your dentist doesn't try to charge less
your doctor doesn't try to change less
your lawyer doesn't try to charge less
the government doesn't try to charge less
Wake up people we are falling to the bottom of the food chain and when my carpenter father steered my into this trade we were top of the food chain
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Here a fair number of contractors/companies are licensed to do heating, plumbing, HVAC and electrical, tho plumbers would be limited to water heaters, dishwashers and garbage disposers, and HVAC guys to a central furnace/AC. I'm sure many/most have a Master Electrician on record if permits need to be pulled (and they seldom are pulled). I wouldnt expect to see a plumber doing light fixtures, tho when I worked in a hotel this and other minor electrical fell on hotel maintenance, none of whom were licensed and few were even experienced in the least.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
A local plumber contracted with a local business to replace a number of 2x4 lay in fixtures. What actually, in your state, defines the need for State License and what does your local AHJ do to assist you in ridding the problem of hackers.

In Florida he would need a EC (unlimited electrical contractor) or ES Lighting (electrical specialty lighting) license. The name of the company does not matter and if he does other trades too that does not matter. Bob's Electric can do roofing if they have a roofing license.
 

tadavidson

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
We have about 6 "Electrical Contractors" in my town of about 35K pop. But nearly every "handy man" and "Carpenter" and Utility Line worker (night and weekend) and others are pretty much installing fixtures, wiring houses where the Owner signs an affidavit that they themselves are "wiring" them.

I am trying to find out if there is any legal definition of where the line is drawn that the Authority says this must be done by a State License holder .
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
We have about 6 "Electrical Contractors" in my town of about 35K pop. But nearly every "handy man" and "Carpenter" and Utility Line worker (night and weekend) and others are pretty much installing fixtures, wiring houses where the Owner signs an affidavit that they themselves are "wiring" them.

I am trying to find out if there is any legal definition of where the line is drawn that the Authority says this must be done by a State License holder .

Here are the NC rules.

87-43. Electrical contracting defined; licenses.
Electrical contracting shall be defined as engaging or offering to engage in the business of installing, maintaining, altering or repairing any electric work, wiring, devices, appliances or equipment. No person, partnership, firm or corporation shall engage, or offer to engage, in the business of electrical contracting within the State of North Carolina without having received a license in the applicable classification described in G.S. 87-43.3 from the State Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors in compliance with the provisions of this Article, regardless of whether the offer was made or the work was performed by a qualified individual as defined in G.S.87-41.1. In each separate place of business operated by an electrical contractor at least one listed qualified individual shall be regularly on active duty and shall have the specific duty and authority to supervise and direct all electrical wiring or electrical installation work done or made by such separate place of business. Every person, partnership, firm or corporation engaging in the business of electrical contracting shall display a current certificate of license in his principal place of business and in each branch place of business which he operates. Licenses issued hereunder shall be signed by the chairman and the secretary-treasurer of the Board, under the seal of the Board. A registry of all licenses issued to electrical contractors shall be kept by the secretary-treasurer of the Board, and said registry shall be open for public inspection during ordinary business hours.

87-43.1. Exceptions.
The provisions of this Article shall not apply:

(1) To the installation, construction or maintenance of facilities for providing electric service to the public ahead of the point of delivery of electric service to the customer;

(2) To the installation, construction, maintenance, or repair of telephone, telegraph, or signal systems, by public utilities, or their corporate affiliates, when said work pertains to the services furnished by said public utilities;

(3) To any person in the course of his work as a bona fide employee of a licensee of this Board;

(4) To the installation, construction or maintenance of electrical equipment and wiring for temporary use by contractors in connection with the work of construction;

(5) To the installation, construction, maintenance or repair of electrical wiring, devices, appliances or equipment by persons, firms or corporations, upon their own property when such property is not intended at the time for rent, lease, sale or gift, who regularly employ one or more electricians or mechanics for the purpose of installing, maintaining, altering or repairing of electrical wiring, devices or equipment used for the conducting of the business of said persons, firms or corporations;

(5a) To any person who is himself and for himself installing, maintaining, altering or repairing electric work, wiring, devices, appliances or equipment upon his own property when such property is not intended at the time for rent, lease, or sale;

(6) To the installation, construction, maintenance or repair of electrical wiring, devices, appliances or equipment by State institutions and private educational institutions which maintain a private electrical department;

(7) To the replacement of lamps and fuses and to the installation and servicing of cord-connected appliances and equipment connected by means of attachment plug-in devices to suitable receptacles which have been permanently installed or to the servicing of appliances connected to a permanently installed junction box. This exception does not apply to permanently installed receptacles or to the installation of the junction box.

(8) To the bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems as required under Section 310.1.1 of the 2012 N.C. Fuel Gas Code.

(9) To the installation, maintenance, or replacement of any load control device or equipment by an electric power supplier, as defined in G.S. 62-133.8, or an electrical contractor contracted by the electric power supplier, so long as the work is subject to supervision by an electrical contractor licensed under this Article. The electric power supplier shall provide such installation, maintenance, or replacement in accordance with (i) an activity or program ordered, authorized, or approved by the North Carolina Utilities Commission pursuant to G. S. 62-133.8 or G.S. 62-133.9 or (ii) a similar program undertaken by a municipal electric service provider, whether the installation, modification, or replacement is made before or after the point of delivery of electric service to the customer. The exemption under this subdivision applies to all existing installations.

(10) To the installation, construction, maintenance, or repair of electrical wiring, devices, appliances, or equipment by a person certified as a well contractor under Article 7A of this Chapter when running electrical wires from the well pump to the pressure switch.”

Roger
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I am trying to find out if there is any legal definition of where the line is drawn that the Authority says this must be done by a State License holder .

You need a license to pull a permit unless it's a homeowner permit.

In this state I'm not sure if you would need a license to change out fixtures. Normally it would be the insurance requirement that would keep the handymen out.

For me it's hard to believe a plumber would want that kind of work. Normally you need experience in a certain type of work to be any thing close to competitive on labor rates.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
We have about 6 "Electrical Contractors" in my town of about 35K pop. But nearly every "handy man" and "Carpenter" and Utility Line worker (night and weekend) and others are pretty much installing fixtures, wiring houses where the Owner signs an affidavit that they themselves are "wiring" them.

I am trying to find out if there is any legal definition of where the line is drawn that the Authority says this must be done by a State License holder .
Look into your state laws.

I presume you probably are state licensed, your state AHJ probably has copies of the laws as they relate to their department. They may even be easily available to view on line.

In our State Electrical Act, after the initial content that gives definitions and general rules about the division itself, about the firs thing mentioned is:

"Except as provided in section 81-2108, 81-2110, or 81-2112, no person shall, for another, plan, lay
out, or supervise the installation of wiring, apparatus, or equipment for electrical light, heat, power,
and other purposes unless he or she is licensed by the board as a Class B electrical contractor, an
electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, or a Class B master electrician."

Key words in there is "no person shall, for another".

Technically if you are not a licensed contractor or other licensed person (like a journeyman) working under a licensed contractor, (which gets better explained in another section) you can't perform wiring installations for anyone but yourself. This law is broken a lot. But if there would be a serious injury or death resulting from non compliance, it further opens the door not only for penalties for not being licensed to do the work, but also to civil lawsuits for damages or even wrongful death.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Technically any trade work requires a license in my area. As for the local AHJ's, it varies widely, but I would never "drop a dime" on someone anyway.

I've DROPPED the dime. Did no good whatsoever. They may have received a verbal chastisement but it is still 'business as usual' for them. I probably talked to more people and spent more time on the complaint than they did. Wasted effort. :rant:eek:ver.
 

__dan

Senior Member
Unless you are directly injured by the hacking or illegally performed work, imo it is not your complaint to make.

If you lost a bid to an unlicensed person and also knowingly gave away the free estimate, bid service, your loss is what you valued the bid at, imo also zero.

If you are injured in any way, loss of time, money, professional standing or reputation, I would say your course of action is reporting the crime to the agency charged by (typically) state law with its enforcement (you would get on their docket with a signed written complaint). And based on finding of wrongdoing by that enforcement agency, you may have course to sue them with your lawyer for your loss.

I'm sure if you were at fault you would be put through the wringer by the large crowd, but the inverse is not also true. Unless the large crowd already turns for you, your complaint may fall in the queue behind their dentist and barbers appointments. Their all talk and no action was an issue in the last election.

When the owners or their agents are too stupid or too shystery and go out for bid to the unlicensed 'great mass of man', you are not party to their course of action. The smart play is to not make yourself party to that by, for example, lowering your bid price to where the hackers are or cheating through the job giddily and necessarily as they do.
 

MNSparky

Senior Member
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Occupation
Electrical Contractor - 2023 NEC
I checked into this in my state a while back because I had a general contractor who would hire us to do a little work on a vacant property and then try to change all the fixtures, devices, hardwired smokes and hardwired appliances out himself after we left. We would call for a final and the AHJ would call us wondering about all the other obviously new stuff that was put in. Basically the general was using us to pull a permit on the property and he was trying to sneak all the other work in under our permit. :rant:

What I found out is the only thing he can legally do is change device plates and light bulbs. All the other work required an electrical contractors license and the work to be done by a licensed electrician or apprentice supervised by a licensed electrician, both who were employed by that electrical contractor and ultimately supervised by a master electrician. The exception would be a homesteaded homeowner.
 

tadavidson

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I checked into this in my state a while back because I had a general contractor who would hire us to do a little work on a vacant property and then try to change all the fixtures, devices, hardwired smokes and hardwired appliances out himself after we left. We would call for a final and the AHJ would call us wondering about all the other obviously new stuff that was put in. Basically the general was using us to pull a permit on the property and he was trying to sneak all the other work in under our permit. :rant:

What I found out is the only thing he can legally do is change device plates and light bulbs. All the other work required an electrical contractors license and the work to be done by a licensed electrician or apprentice supervised by a licensed electrician, both who were employed by that electrical contractor and ultimately supervised by a master electrician. The exception would be a homesteaded homeowner.

More than a 1K miles apart and apparently his kin live round here too.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
More than a 1K miles apart and apparently his kin live round here too.
His kin are everywhere, they just get away with more in some places then others. We have a "house flipper" in the area that needs to cease an desist, IMO. Not just his wiring either, his plumbing, his framing and even some of his finish work are very poor workmanship at the very least. He can paint and decorate well enough that it seems desirable to want to live in though.:(
 
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