GFCI and No Load Neutral

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Little Bill

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Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I handed myself a "headache" the other day! I was installing the electrical for a hot tub. The Spa store manager told me the tub didn't require a neutral. I've installed several that didn't require neutrals but I always pull the neutral anyway in case they get a different tub in the future that does require one.

This was a particularly difficult install as the house was on a hill by the lake. Part of it I could reach from the ground and other parts were 16' up. Hard to set up a ladder because of the incline. Also had to add a junction box and a disconnect in addition to the spa disconnect w/ 2-pole GFCI breaker. So I decided to just pull the neutral into the 1st disconnect and into the junction box but not splice them through.

When I was finished it was late and approaching dark. I was showing the lady how to test/reset the GFCI. Well, the GFCI wouldn't trip with the test button. I took the cover off and made sure the "pigtail" was on the neutral bar, and it was. I thought I just got a bad breaker so I told her I would get another breaker and come back later.
Now this place was almost an hours drive each way so I dreaded making a 2nd trip.

When I got home I was thinking about this being the 1st bad GFCI breaker that I had gotten brand new. Then that little "light bulb" went off in my head.
Yep, I landed the "pigtail" on the neutral bar ok, just didn't splice through the feeder neutral in the disconnect and JB.:slaphead:

Moral of the story: If anyone is unsure if the neutral from the GFCI breaker needs to be connected to the neutral bar even though there is no neutral load.
IT DOES!!!

Funny/Bad thing is I knew that to start with. Not thinking but just trying to save time on install, cost me a 2nd trip (and playing ladder balancing again)!:rant:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I'm not paying you for that extra trip. LOL I have rarely taken a job that far away - when I did it was an entire house. How the heck can you compete with anyone that far away. Do you charge for travel? We do-- I get service calls that are 35 minutes away and I tell them to call someone in their area as I would have to charge them too much.

You must've needed the work.. Actually, we are as slow as I have been in years. Have a lot on the books but we have a large hole between jobs right now
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
well, sorry to hear that headache.

but yes, the Q has been asked many times before, why is the N needed by the gfi, its because the GFI internals need 120v to operate. to me that seems silly for a two-pole ocpd. you basically have to waste N copper just to make the gfi work !
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I'm not paying you for that extra trip. LOL I have rarely taken a job that far away - when I did it was an entire house. How the heck can you compete with anyone that far away. Do you charge for travel? We do-- I get service calls that are 35 minutes away and I tell them to call someone in their area as I would have to charge them too much.

You must've needed the work.. Actually, we are as slow as I have been in years. Have a lot on the books but we have a large hole between jobs right now
We are slow as well. Usually all you would see of us would be A&Es this time of year. Winter could be very long.

A new customer called the other day with a two hour job for a guy. An hour of highway travel time each way. I knew better and told him, two guys both ways most likely all day. They were thrilled and thanked the guys profusely. Now, if they pay.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Always time to do a job twice... but you probably wont make that particular mistake again.

and work's been slow here too to the point I picked up a side project/second job doing PTAC work.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I'm not paying you for that extra trip. LOL I have rarely taken a job that far away - when I did it was an entire house. How the heck can you compete with anyone that far away. Do you charge for travel? We do-- I get service calls that are 35 minutes away and I tell them to call someone in their area as I would have to charge them too much.

You must've needed the work.. Actually, we are as slow as I have been in years. Have a lot on the books but we have a large hole between jobs right now

This was in a small rural area with little to no other electricians. Actually the HO were warned by the Spa store not to use anyone near them unless they had experience with hot tubs. I guess they had tried some before with not so good results.

Actually, I am covered up with work. The lady called and text me about 6 times before I agreed to go. Just so happened that I had just finished a rough-in and had a day I could spare.
Any yes, I charge for travel that far away. I charge time and mileage each way. With the exception of my screw-up causing a 2nd trip!:(
 
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