Broken GE switchgear mechanism

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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
Also will break down the grease in the mechanism and ensure this switch never works right in the future. We call that "Technition in a can", quick fix with long term problems.

I guess I assumed he would relubricate after cleaning since any solvent would break down the grease.:)
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I guess I assumed he would relubricate after cleaning since any solvent would break down the grease.:)

How?, you can't lubricate an operating mechanism without removal form the system and complete disassembly. It is about a 4-5 day job to do it per manufactures instructions.
 

billsnuff

Senior Member
Larry, I noticed from looking around that the P/N indicates it is a 1200 amp and top entry. I know you said it was 4000 amp, so I guess this is rated for a downstream part.......anyway, thats what I got from the P/N. FWIW
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
So, it's obviously better to replace the switch than to try to repair it, and I definitely would schedule a shut-down. I've already spoken with the store manager about this, and he agreed to a night-time shut-down if the replacement is necessary.

The next thing is to determine about how long the replacement would take, so I can price the job accurately. The 1200a switch is the upper one of two mounted in this 4000a switchgear section, which is about 7' tall and about 3' wide.

I will have to arrange for independent power for lighting, plus any power tools I might need, so it looks like my inverter installation will have its first practical workout. So, about how long should I expect it to take, and will I need any special tools?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
1. DO NOT do this energized, this switch is Broken and load with springs, a damage spring flying around between energized bus is the last thing you want.
I'm convinced.

As for my earlier comment. If you buy a used switch it is generally cheaper to buy a switch in an enclosure, single switch line load terminations, that a switch on a pallet. you will get better pricing.
I've found a couple already, but still looking.

If you feel it is just the handle (which I doubt from your description) I would buy a used switch and salvage parts.

I would buy a new or new/used switch, do a swap.

This is easier than monkeying around with the switch, most likely faster and a guaranteed fix.
Again, agreed.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Larry,

You have a rare 1st generation find there. Nearly all of the 1200A THP's out there come in the smaller (R) frame, yours is a larger frame (C) and they will not interchange. Another clue to the old vintage is the 4 in the cat#.

I have a replacement for you, could possibly ship it today if that is what you need. If I were you I would have Brian John run out there, he is not too far away and he knows these inside and out. Sorry it took me so long to jump in here, my home computer is dead so I can't check in here at night.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
How?, you can't lubricate an operating mechanism without removal form the system and complete disassembly. It is about a 4-5 day job to do it per manufactures instructions.
So, about how long would replacement take? Any specialized tools necessary?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Larry, I noticed from looking around that the P/N indicates it is a 1200 amp and top entry. I know you said it was 4000 amp, so I guess this is rated for a downstream part.......anyway, thats what I got from the P/N. FWIW
The switchgear section is rated for 4000a. The one (of two) switches is 1200a. Will a larger one, say 2000a, fit?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I have a replacement for you, could possibly ship it today if that is what you need. If I were you I would have Brian John run out there, he is not too far away and he knows these inside and out. Sorry it took me so long to jump in here, my home computer is dead so I can't check in here at night.
First, I have to submit a price, so I need approx cost and approx time for the swap.

Can we phone?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If I were you I would have Brian John run out there, he is not too far away and he knows these inside and out.
Nice of you to volunteer him. Or would he expect to get paid? :grin:

I'm sure I can handle it, with the right guidance, which is why I'm here.
 

wireguru

Senior Member
Rebiut, tested, and warantied I am sure. Buying un-tested used protective devices on ebay is a liability nightmare waiting to happen.

i wouldnt use a qo120 off ebay let alone some multithousandamp frankenstein switch (if im ever on your end of the country i want a tour) like that thing....my intent was those ebay units might be usable as units to have rebuilt if they could be had cheap enough.
 

shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
How?, you can't lubricate an operating mechanism without removal form the system and complete disassembly. It is about a 4-5 day job to do it per manufactures instructions.

I think you are putting more into this than there needs to be. I have never seen instuctions on cleaning dust and crap out of a breaker, of course I have not seen everything.

In 25 yrs I have never had an issue with cleaning and re-lubing breakers mechanics. Were not talking about submersing the breaker here.:roll:

Most every large frame breaker I have seen, the springs and ratchet assembly is fully exposed just behind the front cover. I don't think we are talking about the newest electronic type breakers or MV type breakers.

Larry can do as he wishes but there is no need to sell the customer a "new" breaker if it is just dirty.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I think you are putting more into this than there needs to be. I have never seen instuctions on cleaning dust and crap out of a breaker, of course I have not seen everything.

In 25 yrs I have never had an issue with cleaning and re-lubing breakers mechanics. Were not talking about submersing the breaker here.:roll:

Most every large frame breaker I have seen, the springs and ratchet assembly is fully exposed just behind the front cover. I don't think we are talking about the newest electronic type breakers or MV type breakers.

Larry can do as he wishes but there is no need to sell the customer a "new" breaker if it is just dirty.

Every day we get failed breakers that have had this sort of "field lubrication" done to them, you displace the grease that belongs in the bearings, roller interfaces, etc. with those solvents and spray lubes and eventually things begin to bind up and fail. This grease can only be replaced by a complete teardown of the operating mechanism.

The old "Technition in a can" solution to sticky breakers is a common misconception, because more often than not it frees things up and everything seems to work fine, for a few days. But this method does more damage than good, which has been discussed in many published articles on CB maintenence and life expectancy. (EPRI, NETA, IEEE)

Then you have the issue of mixing lubricants, this can be a real issue. The OEM has a published list of lubricants that are used in that breaker, when someone adds "brake cleaner", solvents, or even another type of lubricant, the filler and suspending materials used in those can interact and form into anything from heat to cement.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Not to rob Zog of a sale here, but your switch has a shunt trip on it and if the shunt coil was damaged in whatever caused the original POCO outage, then it may not be releasing which would make it so that you can't charge it.

Still, from the sounds of it someone cranked that handle the wrong way and broke something.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Not to rob Zog of a sale here, but your switch has a shunt trip on it and if the shunt coil was damaged in whatever caused the original POCO outage, then it may not be releasing which would make it so that you can't charge it.

Still, from the sounds of it someone cranked that handle the wrong way and broke something.

No problem, I already spoke to Larry and suggested a different solution than getting one from me, I am maybe plan C here if all else fails. Sent him the tech manual for this switch and a few things to look at.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
. . . your switch has a shunt trip on it and if the shunt coil was damaged in whatever caused the original POCO outage, then it may not be releasing which would make it so that you can't charge it.
Good point. I'd hate to replace the switch and have the new one do the same thing. How does one tell?

Still, from the sounds of it someone cranked that handle the wrong way and broke something.
It does, and it certainly feels like a mechanical problem. Again, how does one make sure it's not electrical?
 
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