LEDs, yea or nay?

Learn the NEC with Mike Holt now!

LEDs, yea or nay?

  • Exterior (site lighting, exterior building lighting)

    Votes: 10 14.1%
  • Interior

    Votes: 9 12.7%
  • Both

    Votes: 30 42.3%
  • Neither

    Votes: 22 31.0%

  • Total voters
    71
Status
Not open for further replies.

dmagyar

Senior Member
Location
Rocklin, Ca.
Cost is the big issue

Cost is the big issue

When the cost comes down, then you'll see more adoptance. Right now what I see are specialized applications where initial cost is secondary to power reduction. Though I do agree that over time they "pencil" out.

Plus we're taking the life expectancy on faith, lets see how well they perform in 10 years.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Last high end install I did with them, I charged enough to cover full replacement including labor if they go bad. Until they prove themselves that is how I will continue to bid them. We will see.

If it is a commercial competitive bid, I am going to only cooperate if I can sneak in a clause to contract on replacement or repair...
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I would not use them for general lighting purposes - I find the light they put out to be very annoying.

If you need any color but white light they are great.

I hate driving at night with oncoming cars with LED headlights.

Is it just me or is the color of those lights very annoying to look at?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
On an episode of How It's Made last night, they showed construction of fluorescent-replacement LED tubes, and clained they're good for 11 years of 24/7 operation.

I'm still dubious.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I am not the biggest fan of the light quality but for use in special apps they are great. I like the flexible strip they work well in cabinets.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I've never seen LED headlights, but I've seen plenty of LED taillights.

Are you sure you're not talking about xenon or HID headlights?

I guess I don't know what they are. I assumed they were LED - they have the same annoying color temperature as other white LED's I have seen. I would think xenons would have similar color as xenon undercabinet and other low voltage luminaires I have seen, they definately are not that color. Was not aware of HID being used in autos. Wouldn't they need warm up time and restrike time just like the ones we see in buildings? I wouldn't want that.
 
I would think xenons would have similar color as xenon undercabinet and other low voltage luminaires I have seen, they definately are not that color. Was not aware of HID being used in autos.

HIDs have been used on auto headlights for a few years now. Started with the high-end cars. OTOH, I've never seen a xenon undercab. light, but then when I think of xenon, I think xenon arc lamp of multi-hundred to multi-kilowatt size.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
If the lamp supplies the required illumination then why would it matter as to the Hue that is observed to the installer?

That's like asking a painter if your color choice is critical ? A painter I know has plainly said it doesn't matter to them, and should it matter to us ?
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
I've seen them installed in parking garages and they are pretty good, but as street lighting I would NOT recommend (needs work- lites not that bright)
 

billsnuff

Senior Member
neither

neither

don't know enough to form an opinion. Checked the links in the other post.
Based on what I read there, I am thinking about trying some Day-Brite for a loading dock and some dock lites for semi loading.

Anyone familiar with Day-Brite by Philips?
 
When the cost comes down, then you'll see more adoptance. Right now what I see are specialized applications where initial cost is secondary to power reduction. Though I do agree that over time they "pencil" out.

Plus we're taking the life expectancy on faith, lets see how well they perform in 10 years.

You can check with the manufacturer if they have performed thermal aging test. That will be a safe assurance, together with quelity control in manufacturing that it will lasts. Mind you that in most cases the critical part, the LED is NOT manufactured by the fixture - luminaire - fabricator. Even Dialight, who claims to have 80% of the US market, sources their LED. China is the source of the majority of the LED elements that is on the market and the manufacturing control over there is spotty at best.

SMD LED elements have proven to be the technology that provides the longest life, but thermal management - removing the heat generated by the diode - is the key when mounting the elements. You will see an unusual amount of cooling fins virtually making up the entire fixture in outdoor applications. One problem is that a large percentage of these fins face upward, so with time they are packed with dirt, loosing their cooling effect. So they work well in clean, laboratory test, but in the field they got packed. Dialight claims to be addresing this issue in their next generation of outdoor units, but I yet have to see it.

The light output is expected to double in the next three years. I wonder what the trade-off will be.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
You can check with the manufacturer if they have performed thermal aging test. That will be a safe assurance, together with quelity control in manufacturing that it will lasts. Mind you that in most cases the critical part, the LED is NOT manufactured by the fixture - luminaire - fabricator. Even Dialight, who claims to have 80% of the US market, sources their LED. China is the source of the majority of the LED elements that is on the market and the manufacturing control over there is spotty at best.

SMD LED elements have proven to be the technology that provides the longest life, but thermal management - removing the heat generated by the diode - is the key when mounting the elements. You will see an unusual amount of cooling fins virtually making up the entire fixture in outdoor applications. One problem is that a large percentage of these fins face upward, so with time they are packed with dirt, loosing their cooling effect. So they work well in clean, laboratory test, but in the field they got packed. Dialight claims to be addresing this issue in their next generation of outdoor units, but I yet have to see it.

The light output is expected to double in the next three years. I wonder what the trade-off will be.

That's a very good observation, and was also brought up in class.

One of the things about LED lighting, is that most reputable manufatcures will offer 5-10 year warrenties. It's hard to buy a light from a guy that's only been in business for two years and belive that he will offer a 10 year warrenty.

If what's to be believed about the bulb life, you have to remember that the end use client not only sees an energy savings but also a reduction in maintenance costs.
 
If what's to be believed about the bulb life, you have to remember that the end use client not only sees an energy savings but also a reduction in maintenance costs.

The benefit fades away with the fact that business will NOT invest in non-core expenditures if it has a payback less than or equal to two years. What I mean by non-core is that a corn-husker will by a new cornhusking gadget with longer than 2 years payback, but won't pay for lighting for the conrhusking area that has a 10 year payback.


At current pricing the LED fixtures have no chance. Of course there will be always Governmental entities who will be willing to spend taxpayers money.

Another creative fellow who was just itching to try out these newfangled LED fixtures and found HPS llight replacement beneath his qualifications sweet-talked his supervisor into buying LEDs because the circuits were overloaded. To his luck, nobody asked him to show it where is it overloaded.:D Just to show ya some people are so stupid that they don't realize that the "company's" money is their money also. Then they act SHOCKED when production moves overseas.
 

wireguru

Senior Member
the worst is that every manufacturer of anything is sticking 5mm white LEDs in it to make it 'eco friendly'. A restaurant i go to alot replaced their pie cases with ones with a vertical strip of undiffused white LEDs in each corner. The glare is so bad you cant even see whats in the case. Another one is the new LED lighting theyre putting in grocery store freezers, i find it hard to read the packaging and shelf labels due to the glare...
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
One of the most cost effective LED applications is parking garage lighting as they are on 24x7. Very high rate of return.
Our local grocery store has LEDs lamps that have replaced floresent in coolers, controlled by motion sensors. The LED brite white color makes the products look great.
I am starting to see more applications for street lighting, City of LA is replacing 140,000 HPS with LED...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top