Over sized Nema 3 panel

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rydan

Member
Location
RPB, Fl.
panel.jpg I have a customer that had an inspection done by her home insurance company. He said this panel needs to be changed because its over-sized ... ???? WTF ????
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I have a customer that had an inspection done by her home insurance company. He said this panel needs to be changed because its over-sized ... ???? WTF ????

What was the exact wording of the problem? The panel is too big that's a new one. :roll:
 

rydan

Member
Location
RPB, Fl.
His quote was : " Outside panel is over-sized " ... Its a Cutler Hammer 3R panel. The wires on the right 2 pole 40 are blue ,,, just faded a bit.. The old a/c unit was 40 amp , but the new one only draws 35 amps.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
The description "Outside panel is over-sized" is useless and needs to be clarified. The HO might need a better insurance company that has competent inspectors. :slaphead:
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
His quote was : " Outside panel is over-sized " ... Its a Cutler Hammer 3R panel. The wires on the right 2 pole 40 are blue ,,, just faded a bit.. The old a/c unit was 40 amp , but the new one only draws 35 amps.

Sounds like the A/C unit is nameplated for 35A max OCPD, but there is a 40A breaker. A reasonable notification, if true.
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
The description "Outside panel is over-sized" is useless and needs to be clarified. The HO might need a better insurance company that has competent inspectors. :slaphead:

We need more than the bumper-sticker version. We need the inspector's context. I'm sure he said more that would give us a better idea what he was thinking, right or wrong.

What is the size of the breaker feeding this panel? What size are the feeders?

As noted, there are some minor issues, also.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
Home Inspector reports usually have pictures with notes or titles. I see on the picture it says "oversized 40A breaker". I think he means the breaker is oversized not the panel.
But, depending on the nameplate "Max Breaker/Fuse", the breaker could be fine.
 

rydan

Member
Location
RPB, Fl.
Rob: Thats all he stated for that issue. I read the report he left with the HO. I told her the issue and about the new unit drawing less power. $13.95 for a new CH 35 amp 2 pole at the Depot .. Put the nuets on the correct bar and put a ko in the panel. I figured it was her insurance company giving her a hard time ... Turns out, She called this guy to do the inspection from a friends reference ,,, lol .. His report had more info on the rats that used to live in the attic than anything else . Pretty sad ,,, Yep :happysad:
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Yes. It appears that the only two loads are 240V, and they used white for those EGCs, and landed them on the proper EGC terminal block.

Or else the appliances do use a neutral for control, and they relied on the conduit for bonding or didn't properly bond everything. Hard to tell one way or the other from the picture.
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
Or else the appliances do use a neutral for control, and they relied on the conduit for bonding or didn't properly bond everything. Hard to tell one way or the other from the picture.

Good point, though as an HVAC guy, I've never run across one that needed the neutral. But that's still not to say it wasn't run and terminated wrongly.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Rob: Thats all he stated for that issue. I read the report he left with the HO. I told her the issue and about the new unit drawing less power. $13.95 for a new CH 35 amp 2 pole at the Depot .. Put the nuets on the correct bar and put a ko in the panel. I figured it was her insurance company giving her a hard time ... Turns out, She called this guy to do the inspection from a friends reference ,,, lol .. His report had more info on the rats that used to live in the attic than anything else . Pretty sad ,,, Yep :happysad:

Since the inspector indicated the "Panel" was oversized I would assume he was actually referring to the smaller wires feeding the 100 or 125 amp rated panel.

In which case he may just be uninformed.

Did you verify that the "white wires" were actually "Neutral Conductors" in the unit itself prior to moving them to the neutral bar?

If not you may have corrected one problem by spending the 14 bucks but created another by putting EGC's on the Neutral bar.

I would find myself siding with those that felt the "white wires" were actually EGC's not grounded conductors especially since they seem to be #12 or smaller,

Generally, if a neutral connection is required in the units, the branch circuit feeding the units is much larger than 35 or even 40 amps.

They may have not had any green wire on the truck that day.

If these actually are neutral conductors then I take back everything I said.

If these are actually EGC's then the color of the wire needs to be changed out to green so you can keep a hand up on the inspector. :)

JAP>
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
... .. Put the nuets on the correct bar ...

I missed this. How did you verify they were neutrals and not mis-colored EGCs? My money would have been on the latter, both because of what is typical for those types of loads, and it was very purposely done by whoever did it, when they could have easily hit the neutral bar the first time.
 
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