Receptacle change out

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laketime

Senior Member
I know I have seen this here before but......old house had 2 prong receptacles and HUD inspector wants them changed to 3 prong grounded receps. There are not any grounds on the box. House is old romex with metal boxes. Can I just ground the outlet to the box?
 

jumper

Senior Member
Or,


250.130
(C) Non grounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch
Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor
of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension
shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system
as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor
within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar
within the service equipment enclosure


FPN: See 406.3(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuit interrupting
type of receptacle.
 

cpal

Senior Member
Location
MA
Or,


250.130
(C) Non grounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch
Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor
of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension
shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system
as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor
within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar
within the service equipment enclosure


FPN: See 406.3(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuit interrupting
type of receptacle.

Make sure you check any local amendments some jurisdictions delete this section
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
So if i read this you would just have to install a GFCI at the first receptacle location per circuit, then the rest of the receps. can just be regular 5-15R.
Yes but they must be label with the stickers from the box that says no equipment ground.

Here is the problem with the code that allows replacing old with new 2 wire recep. There aren't any TR 2 wire recep. available that I know of. The ahj may allow them anyway.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
Yes but they must be label with the stickers from the box that says no equipment ground.

Here is the problem with the code that allows replacing old with new 2 wire recep. There aren't any TR 2 wire recep. available that I know of. The ahj may allow them anyway.

But what code cycle is this falling under?
 

Split Bolt

Senior Member
People, you would make it A LOT easier for everyone to help you by simply putting your location on your profile! At least which state you live in! It would save a lot of speculation since different places are operating under different versions of the NEC and many jurisdictions amend the NEC with local codes.

Help everybody help you!:)
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
So if i read this you would just have to install a GFCI at the first receptacle location per circuit, then the rest of the receps. can just be regular 5-15R.


A lot of house in that era were wired thru the ceiling fixture boxes so GFCI breakers are the logical option. Otherwise you are trying to jamb GFCI receps in a LOT of small boxes.

Take a close look. There may be an unused ground wire in the old romex.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
But what code cycle is this falling under?
Wayne, I assume you mean what code art. asks for the labels... 2008 NEC

406.3(D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 406.3(D)(1), (D)(2), and (D)(3) as applicable.
(1) Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where a grounding means exists in the receptacle enclosure or an equipment grounding conductor is installed in accordance with 250.130(C), grounding-type receptacles shall be used and shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 406.3(C) or 250.130(C).
(2) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.
(3) Non–Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where attachment to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(3)(a), (D)(3)(b), or (D)(3)(c).
(a) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another non–grounding-type receptacle(s).
(b) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
Wayne, I assume you mean what code art. asks for the labels... 2008 NEC

Don't know about Wayne but I was referring to your comment about TR 2 wire recpt. If he is under 2005 or earlier the TR wouldn't come into play.
I agree location needs to be stated or at least what code cycle the OP is under.
 

timlahr

Member
Location
St paul, Mn, US
non grounding receptacles

non grounding receptacles

Guess it must be really difficult to make a tamper resistant 2 prong duplex receptacle. It was something missed by the code panel or a refusal by manufacturers to satisfy the requirement. In any event the exception (406.12 Exc. 4) in the 2011 makes it now legal to replace the old 2 prong receptacle with new 2 prong (non tamper resistant) receptacles as a replacement option. Of course on Jan 1 , 2014 when (or if) that receptacle also has to be arc fault protected....your options become scarce.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Guess it must be really difficult to make a tamper resistant 2 prong duplex receptacle. It was something missed by the code panel or a refusal by manufacturers to satisfy the requirement. In any event the exception (406.12 Exc. 4) in the 2011 makes it now legal to replace the old 2 prong receptacle with new 2 prong (non tamper resistant) receptacles as a replacement option. Of course on Jan 1 , 2014 when (or if) that receptacle also has to be arc fault protected....your options become scarce.

It has always been legal to replace 2 prong with 2 prong. It is call ex post facto. Last time I checked the Constitution trumps the NEC or any building code.
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
Read the directions

Read the directions

You cannot exceed the maximum number of GFCI protected receptacles on a circuit per the mfg directions. That includes devices... lights. You might want to consider gfci breakers and label the receptacles " GFCI Protected/ No Equipment Ground" and replace with grounded receptacles. I figure if I replace 5 receptacles on a circuit with gfci's its about the same as a breaker. If you have one or two then use the GFCI receptacles. Look for newer circuits that have been added like washer dishwasher and microwave. They might have been run in NM w/g.
 

stevebea

Senior Member
Location
Southeastern PA
Yes but they must be label with the stickers from the box that says no equipment ground.

Here is the problem with the code that allows replacing old with new 2 wire recep. There aren't any TR 2 wire recep. available that I know of. The ahj may allow them anyway.

I have had more than one inspector quiz me in this situation why his GFI tester would would not trip the GFI. :confused: No reference to ground sir... read your instructions that came your tester.
 

jes25

Senior Member
Location
Midwest
Several states, Michigan for example, have adopted the IRC. The MRC (The IRC with a few local amendments) does not allow the little GFCI trick.
 
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