Metal Boxes in Residential???

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guitarchris

Senior Member
I had a customer (via the contractor) ask why we didn't use metal boxes in their bathroom remodel. My immediately responded, "why would we have used them?". I know that he might say that the box would be grounded therefore trip the breaker if something "hot" gets against it.....Other than that the benifit is lost on me. Metal boxes, especially with romex, are a PITA: more sharp edges, more time to make up, clamps in box etc. The contractor wanted me to talk directly to the H.O. about it so I thought I would see what possible reasons you guys come up with to use and not to use them.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Because it is a "generally accepted practice."

It is code compliant.

Oh and because I said so.

But try to be respectful ;)
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
Tell the HO that since it is in a bathroom you didn't want the boxes to rust in a few years and bleed through the Sheetrock;) or the GC was too cheap to pay extra for unnecessary type boxes. Your choice.
 

mikeames

Senior Member
Location
Germantown MD
Occupation
Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
If he does mention the ground issue my reply would be

"And what would happen if it touched a plastic box?"

I would have no argument instead I would counter every question he/she asked me.
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
ca CHING$ MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

ca CHING$ MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

You could go the Mr Hainey route and suggest for a slight increase in cost Metal boxes would most assuredly be used. . .. ... A job that has this kind of quality components should have metal boxes because it would enhance the craftsmanship needed to display the high quality materials of such a project....


and for just a few dollars more this all could be yours. What would it take to get you to upgrade to those sturdy metal boxes. Nothing lasts longer nor holds up better in high traffic areas like steel. They can come in metric sizes to accommodated European styling and added value of accommodating hard wired switches and receptacles in Almond the fashion color of the season.
If you consider these special order items maybe you might want to have the fine craftsmanship and professional installation of a piped in system with galvanized Electrical metallic tubing and epoxy coated interior for the smooth insertion of those very special and colorful wires lubricated and glistening with only the finest imported gels.

Pause here and look wistful ...

Just a small price for such a large increase in the expandability of your very personal and private space which you use to start everyday of your very busy lifestyle. Think of the added value of having both metal boxes and piped in wiring with individual wires to satisfy the safe and incredible good taste of such as yourself. This type of install is not for everyone. Please choose wisely. But in my humble opinion this installation is right for a person of your impeccable tastes. How much value do you place on your safety and the safety of your loved ones. Metal boxes, EMT, Special wiring, you deserve nothing less.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
There was time in the infancy of plastic boxes that the mounting holes were highly inferior to metal boxes. A sharp pull on a plug could rip the device screws right out of the box. I think that by now they have solved that problem with plastic boxes.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
up until 2-3 years ago, i'd never worked with a plastic box or a wirenut on a joint in residential.


the company i apprenticed for used steel boxes and we soldered all connections. i did the same when i went out on my own.

up until recently many contractors here were still using steel boxes in resi; most have switched to plastic, but still solder their connections.

i went to the dark side of plastic and wirenuts after a few lashings on this forum for my midieval ways. it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be, and i was able to still sleep at night, so i figured what the hell. its cheaper.
 

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
You could go the Mr Hainey route and suggest for a slight increase in cost Metal boxes would most assuredly be used. . .. ... A job that has this kind of quality components should have metal boxes because it would enhance the craftsmanship needed to display the high quality materials of such a project....


and for just a few dollars more this all could be yours. What would it take to get you to upgrade to those sturdy metal boxes. Nothing lasts longer nor holds up better in high traffic areas like steel. They can come in metric sizes to accommodated European styling and added value of accommodating hard wired switches and receptacles in Almond the fashion color of the season.
If you consider these special order items maybe you might want to have the fine craftsmanship and professional installation of a piped in system with galvanized Electrical metallic tubing and epoxy coated interior for the smooth insertion of those very special and colorful wires lubricated and glistening with only the finest imported gels.

Pause here and look wistful ...

Just a small price for such a large increase in the expandability of your very personal and private space which you use to start everyday of your very busy lifestyle. Think of the added value of having both metal boxes and piped in wiring with individual wires to satisfy the safe and incredible good taste of such as yourself. This type of install is not for everyone. Please choose wisely. But in my humble opinion this installation is right for a person of your impeccable tastes. How much value do you place on your safety and the safety of your loved ones. Metal boxes, EMT, Special wiring, you deserve nothing less.

That was beautiful. I imagined a smooth voice gently prodding the customer's wallet open with every word.
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
I had a customer (via the contractor) ask why we didn't use metal boxes in their bathroom remodel. My immediately responded, "why would we have used them?". I know that he might say that the box would be grounded therefore trip the breaker if something "hot" gets against it.....Other than that the benifit is lost on me. Metal boxes, especially with romex, are a PITA: more sharp edges, more time to make up, clamps in box etc. The contractor wanted me to talk directly to the H.O. about it so I thought I would see what possible reasons you guys come up with to use and not to use them.

Why didn't you use metal boxes?
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I would tell the customer this:

Plastic is inherently SAFER. There is no way for wires to energize the box, then the yoke, then the little screws on your switchplate which, if the ground wire malfunctioned, would carry 120V and shock you. Because metal boxes are "likely to become energized" electricians have to spend extra time to ground them to protect the final user.

Plastic boxes have more space inside for air flow and cooling of wires which results in a more efficient system.

Because plastic boxes are larger inside and "breathe" better, the expensive devices like GFI outlets and dimmer switches install easier and last longer.

Metal boxes still have their place, but in my expert opinion plastic is the better way to go most of the time.

Just say it with conviction :)
 

Howard Burger

Senior Member
strategic use of metal boxes

strategic use of metal boxes

Plastic is by far faster to install than metal. But metal boxes have their place - say 4sq shallows, back-to-back in a 2x4 stud wall where a bedroom light is on one side, a hallway light is on the other side; or when you run out of cubes because of how you want to run your circuits and use a 4 11/16 with a mud ring to get the volume.

That said, I like the fiber boxes. If it needs to be changed, or something else requires it to be repositioned, you just hammer the crap out of it and get the visceral pleasure of shattered fiber box flying all over. Much superior to plastic in this area.

And thanks, GUNNING, I can just see you standing there like some head waiter, bowing and washing your hands as you solicitously suggest the 'upgrade'. Great!
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
If Allied Steel would just add a bit of blue hue to the steel mix for the 4"sq boxes then they would gain residential acceptance more readil.......... Oh, sorry, wrong forum :roll:
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Plastic is by far faster to install than metal. But metal boxes have their place - say 4sq shallows, back-to-back in a 2x4 stud wall where a bedroom light is on one side, a hallway light is on the other side; ...
I can't find a pic right now, but, I've seen a two-sided nail-on box that's 4.5" deep and takes devices on both sides.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
up until 2-3 years ago, i'd never worked with a plastic box or a wirenut on a joint in residential.


the company i apprenticed for used steel boxes and we soldered all connections. i did the same when i went out on my own.

up until recently many contractors here were still using steel boxes in resi; most have switched to plastic, but still solder their connections.

i went to the dark side of plastic and wirenuts after a few lashings on this forum for my midieval ways. it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be, and i was able to still sleep at night, so i figured what the hell. its cheaper.

Ok guess there are still some areas of the country in the dark ages:D

Haven't seen a soldered connection on new construction since the early 70's (worked for an old timer back then)

As for plastic verses metal, I just tell the home owner what it would have cost if the job was done with metal box's and explain how much more problems can be caused with metal box's, especially those little JEM box's, and how allot of devices like GFCI's and some dimmers won't fit into them, (well they will if you hammer the wires back) using 1900s would be even more money, and like others said, with plastic, less problems with the screws shorting on the sides of the box's, which if you wire like me, I pig tail and use the screws, which leaves them sticking out just a bit. the other thing is the clamps, how many times have you found a short at a clamp? I'll bet never with a plastic box.

most that hear this don't have a problem.
 
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