3 r panel or not?

Status
Not open for further replies.

stew

Senior Member
Have a retrofit coming up and was just wondering what others would do. The existing panel is on a long kind of dog porch, the panel is located on the exterior of the kitchen wall next to the entry door. The porch is enclosed on 3 sides and is about 8 ft wide with an additional eave overhang of about 18 to 24 inches. Wondering whether you guys would use a 3 r panel or not.
 

stew

Senior Member
Have installed non 3r panels in a few carports and never had a problem. both had 2 enclosed side. the back wall and one side wall.This instal is similar in that the protection is not 3 walls but rather 3 with a long open breezway about 8 or more feet wide.
 
T

taylorp

Guest
Have installed non 3r panels in a few carports and never had a problem. both had 2 enclosed side. the back wall and one side wall.This instal is similar in that the protection is not 3 walls but rather 3 with a long open breezway about 8 or more feet wide.

Stew: I think if you look at 240.32 you will find that the code requires an enclosure rated for damp locations be installed in carports, porches, and the like.

240.32 Damp or Wet Locations. Enclosures for overcurrent
devices in damp or wet locations shall comply with
312.2.

Also look at Table 110.20, 240.32 and 404.4, and Definitions Location, Damp in Article 100.

The indoor panels we normally install are listed as Enclosure Type 1. This enclosure is not listed for any damp or wet location to my knowledge.
 
Last edited:

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The indoor panels we normally install are listed as Enclosure Type 1. This enclosure is not listed for any damp or wet location to my knowledge.

Agreed. It must be listed for damp location. I have seen many standard indoor panels on porches and they rust pretty bad.
 

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
The definition of NEMA Type 1 specifically says "for indoor use...". Porch, carport, lanai, whatever - it's not indoor so NEMA 1 is not allowed.
 
T

taylorp

Guest
Are basements damp ?

Yes Jim, some basements are damp.

Article 100 Definitions.

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and
not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such
locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations,
and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,
such as some basements, some barns, and some coldstorage
warehouses.


Some of these places are damp, but in practice they are all
subject to moisture at one time or another.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Yes Jim, some basements are damp.

Article 100 Definitions.

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and
not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such
locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations,
and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,
such as some basements, some barns, and some coldstorage
warehouses.


Some of these places are damp, but in practice they are all
subject to moisture at one time or another.

So now tell me why we are not using a 3R in basements ?
Only thing i see that creates problem is if panel states indoor use only.
A lot depends on where you live as if your damp or not.
Is a typical indoor panel rated for damp ?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
So now tell me why we are not using a 3R in basements ?
Only thing i see that creates problem is if panel states indoor use only.
A lot depends on where you live as if your damp or not.
Is a typical indoor panel rated for damp ?

Jim I suspect if the inspector deems a basement as damp they could require a 3 R panel but most basement are not that damp. It could be a judgement call. In AZ they may not care since it is fairly dry there.

If your basement is that damp then NM cable wouldn't be allowed there either.
 

dieselram752

Member
Location
mass
Seems like most cellars around here are damp or even wet at times with water on the floor.
It's gonna be fun doing U.F home runs and rain tite uf connectors in the panel.:roll:
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Jim I suspect if the inspector deems a basement as damp they could require a 3 R panel but most basement are not that damp. It could be a judgement call. In AZ they may not care since it is fairly dry there.

If your basement is that damp then NM cable wouldn't be allowed there either.

Had not even gave thinking to it rules out romex.

Damp is a relative word and without a number means nothing.

Very few basements in SW FL.

Problem with NEC is it lets too much up to the AHJ and that creates the NOT IN MY TOWN type inspectors. Seems NEC starts too many codes that they only do a partial job at. A lot could be solved if they were required to define major words that leave no question of dought.

NEC is very old and is not much more than patch work every 3 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top