Clarification on bathroom receptacles

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M4gery

Senior Member
Is the following correct regarding bathroom receptacles as far as the 2008 and 2011 NEC?

You only need 1 receptacle to be 20A, and it doesn't matter where it is. You can install other receptacles throughout the bathroom fed from 15A circuits which are part of other circuits such as lighting, or general use receptacle circuits.

Correct?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
You need a recep, 20 amp that is within 3 feet of a sink. All the recep. can be on that circuit as long as they don't control any lighting , etc. That circuit may also feed all the recep. in all the bathrooms as long as it is not connected to other equipment, etc.

There is another option where you can have everything in the one bathroom-- lights and receptacles on one 20 amp. cir.

As far as having a 15 amp recep. that does not feed the sink area , IMO, you can however it is arguable by some.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Is the following correct regarding bathroom receptacles as far as the 2008 and 2011 NEC?

You only need 1 receptacle to be 20A, and it doesn't matter where it is. You can install other receptacles throughout the bathroom fed from 15A circuits which are part of other circuits such as lighting, or general use receptacle circuits.

Correct?

No, 210.11(C)(3) requires a 20 amp circuit to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Therefore if you have a bathroom receptacle outlet it must be supplied by a 20 amp circuit.

Now the exception to 210.11(C)(3) permits a single 20 amp circuit to supply all loads in a single bathroom such as lights and a fan as well as the required bathroom receptacle outlet.

Chris

Chris
 

M4gery

Senior Member
No, 210.11(C)(3) requires a 20 amp circuit to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Therefore if you have a bathroom receptacle outlet it must be supplied by a 20 amp circuit.

Now the exception to 210.11(C)(3) permits a single 20 amp circuit to supply all loads in a single bathroom such as lights and a fan as well as the required bathroom receptacle outlet.

Chris

Chris
Chris, the way I read it, 210.11(C)(3) requires a 20A circuit, but doesn't limit you to only using 20A for the other receptacles. I believe that is what Dennis is speaking about in his above post when he says it is arguable by some. That is what I am trying to get clarification on here.

Thanks for the replies.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
You need a recep, 20 amp that is within 3 feet of a sink. All the recep. can be on that circuit as long as they don't control any lighting , etc. That circuit may also feed all the recep. in all the bathrooms as long as it is not connected to other equipment, etc.

There is another option where you can have everything in the one bathroom-- lights and receptacles on one 20 amp. cir.

As far as having a 15 amp recep. that does not feed the sink area , IMO, you can however it is arguable by some.

Chris, the way I read it, 210.11(C)(3) requires a 20A circuit, but doesn't limit you to only using 20A for the other receptacles. I believe that is what Dennis is speaking about in his above post when he says it is arguable by some. That is what I am trying to get clarification on here.

Thanks for the replies.

Correct.
 
T

taylorp

Guest
You need a recep, 20 amp that is within 3 feet of a sink. All the recep. can be on that circuit as long as they don't control any lighting , etc. That circuit may also feed all the recep. in all the bathrooms as long as it is not connected to other equipment, etc.

There is another option where you can have everything in the one bathroom-- lights and receptacles on one 20 amp. cir.

As far as having a 15 amp recep. that does not feed the sink area , IMO, you can however it is arguable by some.

I agree with Dennis. 210.11(C)(3) requires at least one 20 Amp branch circuit to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). 210.52(D) explains where to locate this receptacle. The exception allows for other equipment within the same bathroom to be connected to this branch circuit. I do not see a prohibition on running an additional 15 Amp circuit(s) to a bathroom.

However; why would anyone want to run a 15 Amp circuit? With today's Hair Dryers, Curling Irons, and other personal care appliances, the electrical load on many of these appliances exceeds the allowable limit of a 15 Amp circuit.

So in my opinion, if you run any 15 Amp circuits to a bathroom, you are doing a disservice to the homeowner. If they keep tripping the 15 Amp circuit when they plug personal care appliances into the receptacle, they are going to blame you. (And rightly so.)
 
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M4gery

Senior Member
However; why would anyone want to run a 15 Amp circuit? With today's Hair Dryers, Curling Irons, and other personal care appliances, the electrical load on many of these appliances exceeds the allowable limit of a 15 Amp circuit.

So in my opinion, if you run any 15 Amp circuits to a bathroom, you are doing a disservice to the homeowner. If they keep tripping the 15 Amp circuit when they plug personal care appliances into the receptacle, they are going to blame you. (And rightly so.)
I have a situation in which a customer wants a receptacle installed inside of a shelving unit for a couple of small items to charge. It's a large bathroom and this shelving unit is far from the sink or anywhere that something like a curling iron, hairdryer, etc. would be plugged in.

Since I have no access above or below, running the existing 20A bathroom circuit over to this spot would be rather difficult and require many patches on multiple walls. On the other side of this wall is a bedroom with a receptacle in the same stud bay that the new receptacle will be, so tapping off of that circuit would be clean and easy.

I do not believe that I would be doing a disservice to the homeowner.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
I believe 210.11 does restrict all receptical outlets to be 20 amp. .......to supply bathroom receptical outlet(S). I don't believe that just because the sentance " Other 15 amp recptical outlets are allowed". doesn't appear allowes you to do it. All bath receptical outlets are 20 amp GFI protected.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I believe 210.11 does restrict all receptical outlets to be 20 amp. .......to supply bathroom receptical outlet(S). I don't believe that just because the sentance " Other 15 amp recptical outlets are allowed". doesn't appear allowes you to do it. All bath receptical outlets are 20 amp GFI protected.

I disagree.

If what you are saying is true it would be a violation to place an electric clothes dryer in a bathroom which is kind of common installation in this area.
 

M4gery

Senior Member
This is what I dislike about the NEC. This should be a simple and straightforward thing, but it's not. If the code experts here can't agree one way or the other, how could we expect the hundreds of thousands of inspectors around the country to give consistent interpretations?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I have a situation in which a customer wants a receptacle installed inside of a shelving unit for a couple of small items to charge. It's a large bathroom and this shelving unit is far from the sink or anywhere that something like a curling iron, hairdryer, etc. would be plugged in.

Since I have no access above or below, running the existing 20A bathroom circuit over to this spot would be rather difficult and require many patches on multiple walls. On the other side of this wall is a bedroom with a receptacle in the same stud bay that the new receptacle will be, so tapping off of that circuit would be clean and easy.

I do not believe that I would be doing a disservice to the homeowner.

Obviously it can be interpreted differently so in the end it will be up to
local jurisdiction. I agree with the last sentence of your post and personally would accept it in my area.
(of course you need to remember in the areas I inspect, the homeowner would go to the big box store and buy an extension cord and drill holes in the wall to accomodate it :) )
 
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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I had a situation where the ho wanted a display outlet that was switched so that she could hang a picture light over a painting in her bathroom. I did have it on a GFCI and it was connected to a 15 amp lighting circuit. How is this different then a lighting outlet??? That is why I believe it is okay.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
This is what I dislike about the NEC. This should be a simple and straightforward thing, but it's not. If the code experts here can't agree one way or the other, how could we expect the hundreds of thousands of inspectors around the country to give consistent interpretations?

Stay here and continue to listen to our debates. Then when you have a problem in the field you will be the expert and can educate your EI.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Obviously it can be interpreted differently so in the end it will be up to
local jurisdiction. I agree with the last sentence of your post and personally would accept it in my area.
(of course you need to remember in the areas I inspect, the homeowner would go to the big box store and buy an extension cord and drill holes in the wall to accomodate it :) )

If I asked my inspector ahead of time, he would probably let me do this install also.

However, I know he agrees with Chris that this a violation, albeit a minor one.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
So ... many of you believe the code prohibits a 30 amp 240 volt receptacle in a bathroom?
I don't. 210.52 is all about 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp outlets. It only requires one in a bathroom, and it tells us where that one has to be. 210.11(C)(3) says there has to be a 20 amp circuit to supply receptacle(s), and I think the absence of the word "all," as in "all receptacles," is relevant. I believe that the code, as written, does not prohibit using the 15 amp lighting circuit, or a circuit from an adjacent room, to supply "extra" receptacles in the bathroom. However, I also believe the CMP's intent was that any receptacle in a bathroom has to come from a 20 amp circuit that supplies no other outlets (except as noted). So perhaps a 2014 proposal is in order here.

 
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