Resi guys BEWARE Art 225.39!

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bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
although i have been doing this a number of years now, this one just fell out of the sky like a meteor!!!!

almost killed me, but i got real lucky and the inspector told me about it before i covered my ditch!!! had a light/recept ckt, dryer ckt, and washer ckt in a little tiny shack and had to run 60amps to that little 10x10' MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHH!

all the code classes i've been to and never heard of this one. wow!! whatta kick in the pants! had to rip out 50 ft of #6 and replace it with #2 URD.
(just cause that's all that was available). AAACCKKK!
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
You won't like this, you did not have to change the conductors.

You could put a 2 pole 20 at the main panel, run 12 AWG out to the garage into a 60 amp main breaker panel.

NEC sections 225.39 and 230.79 have nothing to do with the size of the conductors only the size of the disconnecting means.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
This rule drives me nuts. I just got off the phone with NFPA and they have no idea why it is written like this. Clearly it says disconnect so Bob is correct.

Now here is another fluke.. Suppose you want to use the 6 disconnect rule but only have 3 circuits rated 15 amps. Now you are in violation since the combined rating is only 45 amps. The combined rating must be 60 or more.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Now here is another fluke.. Suppose you want to use the 6 disconnect rule but only have 3 circuits rated 15 amps. Now you are in violation since the combined rating is only 45 amps. The combined rating must be 60 or more.

One or two circuits would fall under 225.79(A) or (B).

Three 15 amp circuits is a bit of a problem but IMO all you would have to do is add a 15 amp spare breaker.

combining the ratings of all the switches or circuit breakers for determining the rating of the disconnecting means shall be permitted

Notice it says the ratings of the breakers, not the ratings of the circuits. :)
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
This rule drives me nuts. I just got off the phone with NFPA and they have no idea why it is written like this. Clearly it says disconnect so Bob is correct.

I agree. This one seems to confuse everyone, it took me quite a bit of reading and research to finally understand the intent. Seemed like a guy could read it a couple of different ways which only added to the confusion.
 

tryinghard

Senior Member
Location
California
Unless I'm missing something the feeder still needs to be #10cu right?
5000 - Dryer
1500 - Washer
50 ---- General lighting (storage)
6550 - VA
27 ---- Amperes
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
One or two circuits would fall under 225.79(A) or (B).
Yep that's why I said 3 circuits. Also a MWBC wouldn't even need a panel but you know that.:grin:

Three 15 amp circuits is a bit of a problem but IMO all you would have to do is add a 15 amp spare breaker.
Good luck pulling that off. Tell me what the empty breaker is disconnecting.

Notice it says the ratings of the breakers, not the ratings of the circuits. :)
You've been using Charlie's rule too long. :grin::grin:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Yep that's why I said 3 circuits. Also a MWBC wouldn't even need a panel but you know that.:grin:

Yeah, but there are other people reading along .... or at least I assume so.

Good luck pulling that off.

Well thanks but I need no luck, I just need an inspector that can read.

Tell me what the empty breaker is disconnecting.

I don't have to, there is no NEC requirement that it disconnect anything, of course you can 'call the NFPA' and ask them.



You've been using Charlie's rule too long. :grin::grin:

I use what works for me. :cool:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't have to, there is no NEC requirement that it disconnect anything
I wouldn't call a breaker a disconnect unless it disconnects something. Bob I really don't think you will find an inspector to buy that. But heck --- you can try.

of course you can 'call the NFPA' and ask them.
That was a low blow,,,:) I call them to see where they stand but I haven't found them to be much help yet.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I wouldn't call a breaker a disconnect unless it disconnects something.

Dennis, there is no requirement for it to disconnect anything regardless of how either of us feel about.

Bob I really don't think you will find an inspector to buy that. But heck --- you can try.

They do not really have a choice assuming they only enforce the NEC.
 
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