Installing a pool pump for a permanent pool - running new branch circuit (tap?)

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MRKN

Member
Location
California, USA
Hi, friend has a pool with 52" water depth which qualifies as permanently installed under the definitions of 680 despite the manufacturers intention of being taken down for winter months. He has also taken it upon himself to upgrade the pump to a salt water system kit which comes with a 25' cord connected motor, in direct violation of 680.21(A)(3).

Is it acceptable to still locate a specific-purpose GFCI single-receptacle within 3’ of the pump and coil the excess leads up?

Is there any reason he cannot install UFB 18” underground to feed this new receptacle? He must traverse his backyard.

Lastly, he is interested in making the connection not at the panel with a new GFCI breaker, but instead coming off an existing receptacle inside a room in his house (which is closest to the pool), installing a new outdoor convenience receptacle just outside this same wall, and then furthermore continuing on underground via UFB to the pool pump receptacle. The existing circuit is a 15A, and the FLA of the pump is 7.5A, so it seems “plausible”, but I have no experience with residential wiring methods. I do not have information on how many receptacles are fed from this breaker.

I’ve tried calling the pool manufacturer for their recommendations seeing that they’re selling a pool which qualifies as permanently installed under the NEC and thus triggers a whole host of additional requirements, but have sat on the line for 15 minutes twice before giving up.

I am specifically looking for a reason to either force him to run a circuit all the way to the sub-panel, or require PVC/RMC (I am hesitant about UFB, although apparently it’s rated for direct burial).
 
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growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Is there any reason he cannot install UFB 18” underground to feed this new receptacle? He must traverse his backyard.

Why would anyone want to dig a trench 18" deep only to install UF cable? I don't know how far he going with this but the cost is minimal to as least sleeve the cable in PVC conduit. May save a lot of digging and repair cost in the future.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Hi, friend has a pool with 52" water depth which qualifies as permanently installed under the definitions of 680 despite the manufacturers intention of being taken down for winter months.

If it's a permanently installed pool it probably requires a permit to install it. If it does require a permit he will have to follow all the rules for an above ground pool in article 680.

Around here you would have to start out with zoning to make sure you have a legally installed pool. It's not much just the pools location in relation to property lines ( normally).
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Why would anyone want to dig a trench 18" deep only to install UF cable? I don't know how far he going with this but the cost is minimal to as least sleeve the cable in PVC conduit. May save a lot of digging and repair cost in the future.
RGS would allow only 6" burial depth.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
UF is allowed for the motor. 3' cord is all that is allowed and the receptacle must be at least 6' from the pool unless separated by a permanent barrier.

680.22(A)(2) Circulation and Sanitation System, Location. Receptaclesthat provide power for water-pump motors or for other loads
directly related to the circulation and sanitation system shall be
located at least 1.83 m (6 ft) from the inside walls of the pool.
These receptacles shall have GFCI protection and be of the
grounding type.


680.21(A)(1) General. Wiring methods installed in the corrosive environment
described in 680.14 shall comply with 680.14(B) or
shall be type MC cable listed for that location. Wiring methods
installed in these locations shall contain an insulated copper
equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with
Table 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.
Where installed in noncorrosive environments, branch
circuits shall comply with the general requirements in Chapter 3.

680.21(A)(3) Cord-and-Plug Connections. Pool-associated motors shall
be permitted to employ cord-and-plug connections. The flexible
cord shall not exceed 900 mm (3 ft) in length. The flexible
cord shall include a copper equipment grounding conductor
sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.
The cord shall terminate in a grounding-type attachment plug.
 

MRKN

Member
Location
California, USA
Regarding the 3' cord, if this was at work I would tell him he bough the wrong equipment and to return it for something rated and listed for the application, and to have a qualified electrician perform the work and to have it bid with full inspection and permit to meet the requirements of the NEC

My fear is taking that approach will lead to him doing it by himself in an unsafe manner since he is unwilling to pay.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Can anyone comment on the feasibility of him tapping off a circuit with a bunch of receptacles on it?

The code doesn't require a separate circuit but depending on the size of the pump it may require one. Look at 210.23(A)(2)

(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating
of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires,
shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere
rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization
equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.
 

Craigv

Senior Member
Thanks and that's as far as I got. The FLA of his pump is 7.5A, and the CB is 15A. So my interpretation is that does not preclude him from doing it.

If the pump is listed, any instructions for use are part of the listing. Check whether they state a dedicated circuit is required.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Regarding the 3' cord, if this was at work I would tell him he bough the wrong equipment and to return it for something rated and listed for the application, and to have a qualified electrician perform the work and to have it bid with full inspection and permit to meet the requirements of the NEC

My fear is taking that approach will lead to him doing it by himself in an unsafe manner since he is unwilling to pay.

I can answer that in a practical way: the owner/operator plans on having it permanently connected and operating on a timer.

Pools are a real liability. More people (kids) drown in them than are electrocuted. A safe install is more than following the NEC.

There are requirements for fencing and warning sensors at gate openings.

Call the local AHJ and ask what would be required for a safe and legal install. Once you have the information your friend can either do it or take his chances.
 

MRKN

Member
Location
California, USA
Thanks that is a good point there is more beyond the code.

How about this as far as requiring a dedicated circuit to the panel:

680.21(a)(1) - grounding conductor shall not be sized smaller than 12 AWG. He has 14 AWG on the receptacles that he wants to tap off of.

Is there a reason for this? I know there will be pushback, and all I can say is "the NEC is prescriptive, not explanatory". One of the more unsatisfactory aspects of the code.

My best guess: rotating equipment has energy stored in the inertia of the rotor,
which can lead to higher instantaneous fault current than normal cord connected
devices. Requiring a minimum sized grounding conductor ensures equal ground
potentials, eliminating shock hazard while the fault current is flowing but
before the breaker trips. As far as what’s the actual difference between 12 and
14 AWG, it would admittedly likely be small, but the line has to be drawn
somewhere. With that said the NEC is often considered a bare minimum
requirement.
 
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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If the existing circuit is 14 gauge then you cannot use that for the pool pump. Run a new circuit as I suspect with a 52" deep pool it is a pretty large pump at 120V.
 
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