60A 3-phase GFCI

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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
I need to meet the requirements of 210.8(B)... GFCI in a commercial kitchen.

Equipment is a 60A 3-phase fryer.

Gear is Square D; QOB breakers only go up to 50A 3-phase GFCI, and they do not make molded case GFCI breakers.

Any ideas?


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blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
It’s been a while since I’ve looked that code up and my book isn’t handy right now but last I checked if it was over 50 amps and more than one phase then gfci is not required.


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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Wanted to note also that there are three fryers, and each one requires 3x 60A circuits; so 9 total 3-phase circuits.


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blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
For many code cycles, 210.8(B) has provided GFCI requirements but only when dealing with 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in specific locations. Now, this section has been reworded to include the following:

All 50 amperes or less, single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less.
All 100 amperes or less, three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less.



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blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
Wanted to note also that there are three fryers, and each one requires 3x 60A circuits; so 9 total 3-phase circuits.


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Are they hardwired?

I would design around the new GFCI requirements. Not everything in the NEC requires a receptacle. Most three-phase equipment can be hard wired just as easily as making a cord connection. The main issue when hard-wiring instead of the cord and plug connection is the lack of a disconnecting means for the equipment that the cord and plug connection would have provided. As well, when hard-wiring electrical equipment, the ability to remove the equipment for cleaning behind becomes more involved.

Always be mindful of equipment listing and installation instructions that only permit a cord and plug connection. Modifying listed equipment by cutting off a factory installed cord creates other violations.


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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
It’s been a while since I’ve looked that code up and my book isn’t handy right now but last I checked if it was over 50 amps and more than one phase then gfci is not required.


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2017 now requires 3-phase receptacles less than 150v to ground, and less than 100A, must have GFCI protection in “other than dwelling units”. Applies to bathrooms, kitchens, and rooftops.



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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Are they hardwired?

No, and I don’t think they’d ever consider hard-wiring.

They are routinely moved for cleaning and servicing. The hoods come pre-wired with receptacles for the equipment.

Corporate engineer is wanting to request an exception from the AHJ, but in this particular county I doubt they’ll ever get one.



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blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
No, and I don’t think they’d ever consider hard-wiring.

They are routinely moved for cleaning and servicing. The hoods come pre-wired with receptacles for the equipment.

Corporate engineer is wanting to request an exception from the AHJ, but in this particular county I doubt they’ll ever get one.



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You don’t need a gfci if it’s 50 amps or more.


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blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
2017 now requires 3-phase receptacles less than 150v to ground, and less than 100A, must have GFCI protection in “other than dwelling units”. Applies to bathrooms, kitchens, and rooftops.



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Yes but what is your voltage from phase a, b, and c to neutral? Is it over 150v

What kind of three phase are you in? Wye or delta?


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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Yes but what is your voltage from phase a, b, and c to neutral? Is it over 150v

What kind of three phase are you in? Wye or delta?

Good question he hasn't stated the voltage or the system but if it's 208Y/120 then GFCI required.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Yes but what is your voltage from phase a, b, and c to neutral? Is it over 150v

What kind of three phase are you in? Wye or delta?


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Good question he hasn't stated the voltage or the system but if it's 208Y/120 then GFCI required.

Why would it matter Wye or Delta, excluding a corner grounded delta, which I doubt he has?

Now there is the solution. Set up a corner grounded system and get the fryer mfgs to send you units that work on that. No GFCI. :happysad:

That or set a sub panel that accepts plug on.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
You can forget all of that AutomationDestruct stuff, those are "Ground Fault relays", but that does NOT make them "GFCIs", GFCI is a specifically defined term and requires a specific UL listing.

The Leviton one however IS a GFCI, so that would work. You have to pay attention to the details though, it can ONLY be used in specific UL listed and tested combinations using a short list of contactors. This Leviton document gives the rest of those details.
http://communities.leviton.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/2046-102-1-3097/Spec 6895.pdf

I'm surprised that the breaker mfrs have not yet responded to this change in the code.

PS:
Ack, should have checked first. They all have them... Sq. Ds is a QOB260GFI if you want bolt-on, so whomever told you they didn't have it was mistaken.
 
Last edited:
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
You can forget all of that AutomationDestruct stuff, those are "Ground Fault relays", but that does NOT make them "GFCIs", GFCI is a specifically defined term and requires a specific UL listing.

The Leviton one however IS a GFCI, so that would work. You have to pay attention to the details though, it can ONLY be used in specific UL listed and tested combinations using a short list of contactors. This Leviton document gives the rest of those details.
http://communities.leviton.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/2046-102-1-3097/Spec 6895.pdf

I'm surprised that the breaker mfrs have not yet responded to this change in the code.

PS:
Ack, should have checked first. They all have them... Sq. Ds is a QOB260GFI if you want bolt-on, so whomever told you they didn't have it was mistaken.

The Leviton is not for three phase as I read it. Single and two phase?
 
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