Service calls and prices of gas.

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Strife

Senior Member
Ummm, yeah.
Except last time I increased prices gas was 1.8/gallon (which oddly enough was about two years ago. How soon people forget). That's actually around 12 dollars more for a service call. And when a lot of the service calls are 1-2 hrs it matters a lot. And when factoring the "free estimates" it adds even more.
At this point I don't want to charge more an hour, but I'm seriously considering charging for estimates. Sears technicians do it. Why can't we?
I'm not talking my regular customers, I get 80% of their work, and the other 20% I have a chance to be the lowest.

Do "billing factors" like natural gas company? Metered x factor of 1.08235 or whatever

"fuel surcharge" like UPS & FedEx?

I can't possibly see the direct reflection of fuel cost being that high.

Even at 10mpg, the increase in directly traceable cost increase in gas price from $3 vs $4 for a 50 mile round-trip service is $5 and thats assuming worst case scenario with point A to B and back to A with absolutely no productive activity to add onto that service call. If you start out in the country and go into the city and make a stop at the supply house to buy a bunch of other stuff for other jobs, that counts as a productive stop.

If material goes up, how do address it?
i.e. if your cost was $10 today and you charge $20 for it, and its $20 tomorrow, do you charge $30 to cover the incremental cost or do you charge $40? If the latter, you're actually benefiting from rising material cost.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
.

From you reply it is clear, you may not understand how flat rate pricing is quoted or billed, commercial alarm work is all under contract and your customer knows what they will pay for service calls repairs and maint.

There is a general misunderstanding of flat rate work, it is not a menu of hard prices, nor is it guess work, or overpriced quotes, but rather an assembled estimate based on accumulated actuals data and a knowledgeable electrician.

From you reply it is clear you are still stuck with that 'If you don't see it my way you are an idiot' attitude.

So tell me oh great one, how do I 'flat rate' my calls to troubleshoot fire alarm ground faults in large buildings?

I must be doing it wrong because I charge T&M for that work and make good money at it.:roll:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
He did say service calls, and if you think adding a fuel adjustment will excite a customer try T&M where the cost is an unknown with a residential and even many commercial accounts, the problems are endless, flat rate or contract pricing always lets the customer know what to expect no supprises, and when prices increase, it is better when you have control of your costs.

He did say service calls, I did not say adding a fuel charge was right or wrong.


Yes the customers are always happier to know what a job will cost them before we get started but I can't (and neither can you) predict how long and how much it will take to do many troubleshooting tasks in large facilities.
 

jmsbrush

Senior Member
Location
Central Florida
T&M definitely has its place in certain situations, I agree with you 100%. IMO these situations are commercial work or industrial work ,like your describing Iwire. You have to do what is best for your company. In fact, you can have both and your company will work out just fine.

Flat rate is more suited for residential service and light commercial.

As far as gas prices go, when your cost of business goes up, your prices have to go up.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
From you reply it is clear you are still stuck with that 'If you don't see it my way you are an idiot' attitude.

So tell me oh great one, how do I 'flat rate' my calls to troubleshoot fire alarm ground faults in large buildings?

I must be doing it wrong because I charge T&M for that work and make good money at it.:roll:

You took the words right out of my mouth. How is it that I don't understand flat rate? because alarm work is contract T&M?

Not all alarm work is contract T&M. I do service for others straight T&M portal to portal. No one does service troubleshooting work for flat rate and always profits.

Please explain what you mean by flat rate
 

satcom

Senior Member
You took the words right out of my mouth. How is it that I don't understand flat rate? because alarm work is contract T&M?

Not all alarm work is contract T&M. I do service for others straight T&M portal to portal. No one does service troubleshooting work for flat rate and always profits.

Please explain what you mean by flat rate

All alarm work may not be T&M but it all has to have a contract, unless your operating without insurance, when we contract with an alarm account, all the terms and conditions of installatiion maint and repair including the cost of these services.

There is no one way for someone to operate a business, and I am sorry for suggesting The methods I found helpful, it appears this subject lights some fire , so I will not add to it.

All work can be priced, over the years we did all types of work under contract, from residential, commercial and industrial, even our industrial and commercial accounts where we had men working on Long and short term maint repair and installation including office fit up and industrial maint was under contract.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I am still thinking on charging $25 fee to come out and look at any job or service call. Costs are way up & customers are more fickle than ever about paying for anything. I've given quotes on repairs, new work, etc and not gotten work from a great many of them. the person willing to pay a small trip fee may be more willing to pay for some work. I'm tired of being everyone's first budget cut.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
As some here will know, I'm from the other side of the pond and mostly in a different business sector but there are some similarities - we respond to service calls 24/7. Some near. Some far.
One big difference, I think, is vehicle fuel consumption here. Fuel prices are more than $8.50 per US gallon (about $10 per UK gallon!). One consequence of this is that we generally drive more fuel-efficient vehicles. I drive a fairly decent car - it's a five seat four door with all the gizmos - and I routinely get better than 60 mpg and have recorded over 70 mpg. Sure, it isn't as quick as my wee blue Jag was but, with a top speed of over 130 mph, it's as quick as I need it to be.

So, as a thought, maybe one way to help keep your costs down would be to improve fuel efficiency.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
As some here will know, I'm from the other side of the pond and mostly in a different business sector but there are some similarities - we respond to service calls 24/7. Some near. Some far.
One big difference, I think, is vehicle fuel consumption here. Fuel prices are more than $8.50 per US gallon (about $10 per UK gallon!). One consequence of this is that we generally drive more fuel-efficient vehicles. I drive a fairly decent car - it's a five seat four door with all the gizmos - and I routinely get better than 60 mpg and have recorded over 70 mpg. Sure, it isn't as quick as my wee blue Jag was but, with a top speed of over 130 mph, it's as quick as I need it to be.

So, as a thought, maybe one way to help keep your costs down would be to improve fuel efficiency.

First I'm just going to say wow, then I'm going to ask, mpg or kpg?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
So, as a thought, maybe one way to help keep your costs down would be to improve fuel efficiency.

A typical American full sized van with gas motor gets about 13 MPG depending on a lot of factors, our diesel vans are getting about 17 or 18.

We need larger vehicles not smaller so I think we are stuck with our mileage.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Its easy to perform service and dispense with all the headache of rising gas prices.
What you do is drive a VW bug to your service calls, and "borrow" the customer's ladder. I learned this from somebody in San Francisco, but I'm dumb so I never tried it myself..........
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
All alarm work may not be T&M but it all has to have a contract, unless your operating without insurance, when we contract with an alarm account, all the terms and conditions of installatiion maint and repair including the cost of these services.

I am not operating without insurance, and regularly work on fire alarms that are not under any contract. I cannot force the customer to enter in a maintainence agreement, but I will gladly service them.

There is a written estimate signed, so technically that's a contract, but not beyond the work performed right then.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
All alarm work may not be T&M but it all has to have a contract, unless your operating without insurance,

I will need to see some proof of that or I will consider that some odd NJ rule.



when we contract with an alarm account, all the terms and conditions of installatiion maint and repair including the cost of these services.

If someone calls our office out of the blue and asks us to come and fix there FA system I will send someone out to do so without hesitation, without a contract.


All work can be priced,

And again I say no, you cannot price all troubleshooting calls ahead of time.
 

Strife

Senior Member
Customers will be happy if I do it for free, even better, warranty as well what I did for free.
Bottom line it used to take 100-120 in gas for a van. Now it's getting to almost 250, so either way I look at it, and whatever logic I try to use, using the van 40hrs a wk means 2-3 dollars more an hr.
And I'd love to use Obama's advice (as well as another poster across the pond) by using a "more fuel efficient" vehicle.
problem with that is, ladders don't fit well in a prius, neither do 200-300lbs of copper (and before anyone say anything, one color of each, just 120-240V wire in 10 and 12 gets you about there. Yeah it weighs that much), not to mention a few sticks of conduit.



He did say service calls, I did not say adding a fuel charge was right or wrong.


Yes the customers are always happier to know what a job will cost them before we get started but I can't (and neither can you) predict how long and how much it will take to do many troubleshooting tasks in large facilities.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
So, as a thought, maybe one way to help keep your costs down would be to improve fuel efficiency.

Blasphemer! ;)

When I got my Transit Connect a year and a half ago, a lot of guys chided me for it. Now, with gas at $4/gal again, they're asking how I like it and what kind of mileage it gets. Even with the improved efficiency of my truck, my fuel costs are still my second largest cost after materials and average about 12-15% of material costs.

It would be even more efficient as a diesel or LPG conversion (extremely rare and expensive in the US), but ever since I can remember diesel has cost more than gas here (unlike on your side of the pond) and the higher price has been a real psychological barrier to buying diesel vehicles. Come to think of it, there are a lot of psychological barriers to becoming more fuel efficient in the US :)
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
Blasphemer! ;)

When I got my Transit Connect a year and a half ago, a lot of guys chided me for it. Now, with gas at $4/gal again, they're asking how I like it and what kind of mileage it gets. Even with the improved efficiency of my truck, my fuel costs are still my second largest cost after materials and average about 12-15% of material costs.

It would be even more efficient as a diesel or LPG conversion (extremely rare and expensive in the US), but ever since I can remember diesel has cost more than gas here (unlike on your side of the pond) and the higher price has been a real psychological barrier to buying diesel vehicles. Come to think of it, there are a lot of psychological barriers to becoming more fuel efficient in the US :)
In Georgia diesel was cheaper than gas until 5 years ago, I know because that's around the time I bought a diesel truck.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
problem with that is, ladders don't fit well in a prius, neither do 200-300lbs of copper (and before anyone say anything, one color of each, just 120-240V wire in 10 and 12 gets you about there. Yeah it weighs that much), not to mention a few sticks of conduit.

I would say we are maxing out our 9950 GVWs with all of our service trucks.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
First I'm just going to say wow, then I'm going to ask, mpg or kpg?

MPG.
See below.

Maybatch13005.jpg


MPG.jpg
 
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