" UTILIGUARD " Saves 20% on energy bills ??????????

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Davebones

Senior Member
All right ,my boss has a salesman saying he can save us 20% on electric costs if we use these . I see these as just surge protectors . I see a NEMA,ANSI,UL , ENERGY-STAR , stamps on the brochure . They say it clamps the voltage peaks and cuts down on the heat in the electrical system . Any info you guys have would be appreciated as I am going to show this to the boss .......( www.anchorenergysolutions.com)
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
All right ,my boss has a salesman saying he can save us 20% on electric costs if we use these . I see these as just surge protectors . I see a NEMA,ANSI,UL , ENERGY-STAR , stamps on the brochure . They say it clamps the voltage peaks and cuts down on the heat in the electrical system . Any info you guys have would be appreciated as I am going to show this to the boss .......( www.anchorenergysolutions.com)

Well at least they aren't claming to improve your power factor....
Snake oil.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
The one thing that is known about such devices is that they do not save you money. The thing that is not known is how they go about attempting to prove that you do, so that they don’t have to pay anything under their guarantee.

Back to basics: The cost of your electricity will depend on the amount of energy your equipment draws each month, as measured by the meter at your home or business. If you have an air conditioning system motor that runs for, let us say, a half hour, it will draw the same amount of energy with or without their device connected. Where are the savings? OK, so for the small fraction of a second during the motor’s start cycle, there might be a surge in voltage. I don’t know how that can be (starting cycles tend to drop voltage, due to the large inrush current), but let us assume it happens. With their device connected, the voltage won’t rise above 130 volts. Without their device, it might go higher, and for that brief moment, there might be a little extra heat generated. But where is the difference in the amount of energy drawn by the motor? A fraction of a second makes no measurable difference in what the meter sees. So again I ask, where are the savings?

Now back to my original point. How do they prove you saved money? Do they simply let you submit a year’s worth of electric bills for the year before, and the year after, you install their device, and then send you a check if the bills did not drop by at least 10%? Why do I doubt that? If you boss has any real interest, or if he is getting any real pressure from the sales person, then I suggest that your boss should press very hard for a written description of the process to be used to prove, or disprove, energy savings.
 

skeshesh

Senior Member
Location
Los Angeles, Ca
Funny how you don't see these that say Eaton, GE, or Square D on them :)

They're just hiding all the cool high tech stuff cause they're in cahoots with the utility companies. It's probably in the same secret storage facility as Tesla's death ray. It's all a conspiracy!
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
110323-1753 EDT

This is the worst scam I have seen. At least the PF guys have a more logical but invalid description.

These guys claim to clamp at 130 V. To do this they will need a gigantic heat sink and water cooling. Then they will greatly increase the power company bill, and in short order burn up the pole transformer.

For a 120 V sine wave the peak voltage is 170 V. So a very low impedance is placed on the source as soon as the the instantaneous voltage reaches 120 V assuming a sharp threshold exists, and this they imply.

One would want a clamping device with a threshold no lower than 200 V and likely about 240 V for normal power distribution circuits.

These people need to be turned over to the Attorney General of Florida.

I went to the local home show last weekend and expected to see a guy with his power factor gimmick. Unfortunately he was not there. I wanted do a more accurate analysis of his claim, and then see if I could get the county go after him on fraud. These people need to be stopped. Note: how many electricians on this forum have fallen for the sales pitch. What is the general public to do when confronted with such sales pitches?

.
 
All right ,my boss has a salesman saying he can save us 20% on electric costs if we use these . I see these as just surge protectors . I see a NEMA,ANSI,UL , ENERGY-STAR , stamps on the brochure . They say it clamps the voltage peaks and cuts down on the heat in the electrical system . Any info you guys have would be appreciated as I am going to show this to the boss .......( www.anchorenergysolutions.com)

What they attempt to say that by clamping down switching, nonlinear components of complex waveform, they allow only the 'purified' sine-wave do the work. Except when they clamp this down, it already passed through the meter, so the meter will register all components that otherwise provide 'work', eg. billable kWhrs. The surge protectors actually DISSIPATE the excess energy, that is why their protection feature or capability is expressed in joules or thermal units. So while the energy does not get 'wasted' as non-convertible mechanical energy it is wasted as dissipated heat. In other words they divert the losses from one place to the other to illustrate, again, that "there is no free lunch".:grin:

To illustrate it, have them install a meter front of the device and after it or hook up two identical devices through a meter, one with and the other without their gadget and see what happens. This request usually makes them vanish like smoke in a drafty alley.......:roll:
 
110323-1753 EDT

This is the worst scam I have seen. At least the PF guys have a more logical but invalid description.

These guys claim to clamp at 130 V. To do this they will need a gigantic heat sink and water cooling. Then they will greatly increase the power company bill, and in short order burn up the pole transformer.

For a 120 V sine wave the peak voltage is 170 V. So a very low impedance is placed on the source as soon as the the instantaneous voltage reaches 120 V assuming a sharp threshold exists, and this they imply.

One would want a clamping device with a threshold no lower than 200 V and likely about 240 V for normal power distribution circuits.

These people need to be turned over to the Attorney General of Florida.

I went to the local home show last weekend and expected to see a guy with his power factor gimmick. Unfortunately he was not there. I wanted do a more accurate analysis of his claim, and then see if I could get the county go after him on fraud. These people need to be stopped. Note: how many electricians on this forum have fallen for the sales pitch. What is the general public to do when confronted with such sales pitches?

.

In Asia they do a tremendous volume with various fancy gadgets presented by either three-piece suit or really wild looking 'nerdy' types.
 

skeshesh

Senior Member
Location
Los Angeles, Ca
In Asia they do a tremendous volume with various fancy gadgets presented by either three-piece suit or really wild looking 'nerdy' types.

Wow Mr. Weress you've outdone yourself this time - I've been laughing for a couple of minutes now. I can just imagine one of these jerks showing up with some ridiculous "revenge of the nerds" get-up or dressed in a full suit with a monocle, a pipe and a pocket watch on a chain...
I am at least glad though that Davebones came to the good people of this forum to get some proper advice.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Wow, talk about using truth mixed up in the lies...

The Utiliguard Power Quality System also eliminates a process called Corona. Corona is a discharged build up over time that is in your electric lines by ionizing fluid so as to create a plasma around the electrode. Coronas can generate audible and radio frequency noise. They represent a power loss and their action can be disadvantageous to human health where power lines run through built- up areas. Corona discharge is undesirable in Electric power transmission, as it causes:

* Power Loss
* Audible noise
* Electromagnetic interference
* Purple glow
* Ozone production
* Insulation damage
So, corona is a real phenomenon, and their description of it isn't totally inaccurate. But it's something that occurs a tiny bit in Medium Voltage and is only really significant in High Voltage equipment, i.e. above 15kV. In systems under 2300V, it's virtually non-existent and CERTAINLY HAS NO BEARING ON POWER CONSUMPTION.

What a crock of...
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
The math doesn't even add up, a surge raises the voltage, the device clamps down applying a heavy load, if I remember right VxA=W, if either V or A raises so will the power:confused: and in this case both raise:confused:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The math doesn't even add up, a surge raises the voltage, the device clamps down applying a heavy load, if I remember right VxA=W, if either V or A raises so will the power:confused: and in this case both raise:confused:

that is my thoughts. If the voltage raises above the clamping level what happens to lower it - applying load = even more power used. It is maybe a good device for surge protection but that is all.

As far as going after the salesmen with authorities, most of the salesmen are not really doing anything wrong. They are just doing their job selling a product that they were most likely trained to sell. Problem is they likely have little or no knowledge of the concepts other than what they were misinformed about during their training.
 
that is my thoughts. If the voltage raises above the clamping level what happens to lower it - applying load = even more power used. It is maybe a good device for surge protection but that is all.

As far as going after the salesmen with authorities, most of the salesmen are not really doing anything wrong. They are just doing their job selling a product that they were most likely trained to sell. Problem is they likely have little or no knowledge of the concepts other than what they were misinformed about during their training.

Unknowingly misleading is still misleading. Same difference as between first degree murder or accidental homicide.
 

sii

Senior Member
Location
Nebraska
I posted a thread about a montha ago because a Utiliguard salesman was coming to our plant. He's been in and out a couple times after doing the initial survey. Unfortunately, I've been very busy each time he was here so I don't get much time to speak with him. I have asked him what they plan to do and his only response has been "clean up the incoming power and eliminate the waste".

The one example he gave me was a local restaraunt that he did an install on and their toasters, which had always been inconsistant, now made beautiful toast each time. I decided it was time to go to lunch so my head didn't implode.
 
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Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Well, hey. When I was 7 my goal in life was to make good looking toast and I can now say that the incorrect application of electric current was the entire reason I failed most of the time. Maybe these could have saved a loaf or two of bread although I had three hungry brothers so I really doubt to much was lost.
 

mivey

Senior Member
Well, hey. When I was 7 my goal in life was to make good looking toast and I can now say that the incorrect application of electric current was the entire reason I failed most of the time.
I don't get it.



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