GG
Senior Member
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- Ft.Worth, T.X.
I have never seen the listing information, and cannot confirm that it declares the usage to be temporary. Anyone have a link?Generally yes, it would be a 110.3 violation because of the temporary usage in the UL listing for Christmas lights.
I have never seen the listing information, and cannot confirm that it declares the usage to be temporary. Anyone have a link?
Wayne - Although I agree with you entirely, I had a reception hall that wanted to leave these style lights hanging for weekend use. The Deputy State Fire Marshall cited them while reviewing for an entertainment permit. The owner filed for a variance through Dept. of Fire and Building and stated that the periodic use of the lights would equal 1 years time as compared to 90 days continuous use under the listing. The Dept. of Fire and Building came back and said there was no requirement for a variance, but never said what requirements would be applicable. Locally, because of the limited use, we allowed them to be changed every year and must have a label attached at the plug end on the last date changed. Still room for "fudging", but comfortable with the arrangement.
I ran into a similar issue with a business that wanted to place such lights outside on a permanent basis. They desired to do things 'right,' and wondered if there was a 'heavy duty commercial type' of decorative lighting available.
Let's face it: there's simply no other way to weave lights into your landscaping. It does produce a much desired decorative effect.
The problem is thet UL has no listing or category that would apply to a permanent installation. Absent an appropriate product category, no manufacturer has any reason to submit a product for listing. The NEC does not directly address the topic. So, these common displays are 'illegal' by default.
Maybe we need to propose that the NEC correct this oversight. Arguments pro/con aside, this seems to be the exact reason for the proposal process.
Oh, I'm sure you can do all manner of things with rope lights. Or track lights, or whatever. Alas, lighting is very much an area where 'the look' matters - and there are no rope lite 'nets,' 'icecicles,' or anything else that has the effect. At least, that's what the customers say.
Likewise, my comment about 'there being no ...' was based upon discussions I've had with various UL personnel. There's a 'code gap' here.
Maybe another example can be used. I have a lamp on my desk that's been there for years- yet no one considers this a misapplication of 'temporary.' These holiday lights were assumed to be temporary, but are being used for longer periods. UL's not about to create or change a category without a nudge from the code committee.
I suppose you could say the holiday lights are just appliances, not part of the structure, etc. Such was pretty much excluded when the NEC chose to specifically address holiday lighting. That, in turn, was inspired by a gent who published many pictures of long-standing installations that were rendered dangerous by age, abuse, and weather.
What a tangled web we weave ...
Thanks jumper,
Remember guys this doesn't apply to rope light system used in many places for the same purpose.
The photo in the OP almost looks like rope lights, because of the all green color?
I disagree with the previous responses. The lights themselves do not constitute an electrical installation. The installation to which the 90 day limit applies is the manner of providing power to them. If there is a permanently and properly installed receptacle outlet into which the lights are plugged, then they can stay there forever. It is no different than setting a lamp upon a coffee table, plugging it into the nearest receptacle, and leaving it there for years. The lamp is not the "electrical installation," the receptacle is.
I don't keep a code book at home, but I am fairly sure that is not what it says. It is not, "90 days for holiday lighting." It is "90 days for temporary installations." Holiday lights are an example of an item of utilization equipment that might be served by a temporary installation (time limit applies) or by a permanent installation (time limit does not apply).590.3(B) sounds prety cut and dried to me. 90 days for holiday lighting.
I don't keep a code book at home, but I am fairly sure that is not what it says. It is not, "90 days for holiday lighting." It is "90 days for temporary installations." Holiday lights are an example of an item of utilization equipment that might be served by a temporary installation (time limit applies) or by a permanent installation (time limit does not apply).