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Thread: Ford Powerstroke 6.0 diesel work vehicle owners..... take note....

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulthrotl View Post
    i have learned more about the 6.0 powerstroke diesel that is in my
    econoline in the last few days, than i ever wanted to know.....

    here is the scoop for those of you driving with this engine doing the
    pushing....

    there are THREE major problems with this engine.

    oil cooler
    EGR cooler

    head studs

    they are all interrelated, as when the first one goes, it triggers
    a cascade to create other problems.

    the root of almost all the problems is the oil cooler, under the manifold.
    it's an oil to water intercooler, and plugs up with coolant sediment.
    no way around it. sand from block casting is a huge culprit. you can
    use coolant filters, but sooner or later, that thing is gonna get blocked.
    this reduces heat transfer of the oil to the water, and reduces the water
    flow to the EGR cooler, right next to it. that causes it to overheat, plug
    with sediment as well, and pass on even less hotter water to cool other
    things, like turbos, etc.

    so, if you have over 40k miles on that motor, both those things need to be
    replaced. if you are under warranty, ford will replace them with the same
    parts, buying you enough time to get out of warranty. the repair of these
    two things is $4,400 at the dealer. for a fix that doesn't solve anything.

    mine lasted 90k miles, cause i'm fussy with service on the vehicle, but
    moreover, cause i'm lucky. but not lucky enough, cause i'm out of
    warranty when it went poop last wednesday.

    there are a lot of people with fixes for this problem. the one i'm going
    with, is from bullet proof diesel, of mesa, arizona. everything else is a
    bandaid. this one solves the problem for good.

    a remote oil/air cooler on the front of the radiator, with bypass oil filtering.
    and a 316 stainless steel EGR cooler that can't plug up or blow out or rust.

    now, the head gasket problem is not a head gasket problem, it's a cylinder
    head bolt problem. the only solution that works is installing an ARP cylinder
    head stud kit, which costs $500 for the stud kit. they also make an even
    stronger head kit for competition motors, which is $1,300 for the kit, and
    not needed.

    there are aftermarket head gaskets claiming to solve the problem.
    they blow out in a year, no matter what head bolts or studs you use.
    use only OEM ford head gaskets.

    if you fix those three things, the life of the engine should be well above
    half a million miles.

    so, what's it cost? for a van, right around $9,000.00 i'm waiting on the
    exact estimate. probably about $7,300 for a truck, as you don't have to
    remove the engine to pull the heads, but you do have to lift the body
    off the frame. it's faster that way than doing the bobbing for apples
    thing over the body and fenders.

    so, you pay your money, and you make your choice.... but if i was
    gonna pull the manifold to fix these things on a truck, i'd do the
    cylinder heads at the same time. friend of mine didn't do that, spent
    the $4,400 at the dealer for the same sucky parts, and six months
    later, lost the head gaskets. all the labor was wasted, as it all had
    to come apart *again*.

    he traded it in on a dodge.

    useful links:

    http://www.bulletproofdiesel.com/

    http://arp-bolts.com/
    Guess what? My 05 6.0 with 107000 miles is in the shop now. The pickup was starting to chug a little the other morning like the fuel filters might be plugging up so I had it sent in to the dealership. It's been needing to be serviced for some other minor things I've been putting off too, so I guess now's the time.

    My list of problems I gave to the dealer:

    1. Cruise control doesn't work
    2. Front brakes squeek
    3. Fuel filters need changed?
    4. Check engine light comes on
    5. "Wrench" light comes on
    6. Fuel gauge quits intermittently
    7. Hubs don't lock in automatically using shift-on-the-fly, only work manually.

    Dealer finds more, Fulthrottl nailed the first two:

    8. EGR Cooler
    9. Engine Oil Cooler
    10. Leaking rear shocks
    11. Bad tie rod end
    12. Steering gear box has excessive play in it?

    The dealer said the right front axle shaft has an 1.5"!!! of up/down play in it keeping the vacuum seals from working and engaging the automatic hubs. EGR and Engine coolers are just starting to plug up, there should only be a 13 degree difference, right now I have a 25 degree. I'm glad the dealer caught this for me before I wrecked the motor!

    The cruise control needs an $1100 PCM to work, supposedly the circuit failed inside the brain box. A fuse would of been too easy!

    The quote the dealership sent over is at $5300 so far and he hasn't even worked up the cost for the front end work yet....

    The boss freaked out....

    The shop bought the truck used at 85000 miles, I don't know if this one is going to pencil out. Gets 12.5 MPG, the loaner Dodge 4 door 4wd, same as my pickup except mine has an extended cab instead, gets 16.5 mpg but it isn't tooled up either though. So maybe the MPG would even out, the Dodge seems to have a lot more get up and go too!

    Keep an eye on your 6.0 liter!!
    Last edited by Cow; 07-27-12 at 08:24 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow View Post
    Guess what? My 05 6.0 with 107000 miles is in the shop now.
    Dealer finds more, Fulthrottl nailed the first two:

    8. EGR Cooler
    9. Engine Oil Cooler

    EGR and Engine coolers are just starting to plug up, there should only be
    a 13 degree difference, right now I have a 25 degree. I'm glad the dealer
    caught this for me before I wrecked the motor!

    The cruise control needs an $1100 PCM to work, supposedly the circuit
    failed inside the brain box. A fuse would of been too easy!

    The quote the dealership sent over is at $5300 so far and he hasn't
    even worked up the cost for the front end work yet....

    The boss freaked out....
    just my gut, i'm hollering BS on the cruise control.

    powertrain control modules (PCM) usually don't go
    bad, there is something else going on... that's my
    gut call on that one.

    a 25 degree delta between engine oil temp and
    engine coolant tem is not "starting to go bad".
    i had a 25 degree delta on mine, and the EGR
    cooler had failed, leaking coolant into the intake
    manifold, causing stretched head bolts, and blown
    head gaskets.

    if you look at the coolant catch jug, and it has white
    crusty stuff around the filler, or when you stick
    your foot in it hard, you get a whistle, sort of like
    a teakettle, you probably have leaking head gaskets
    as well as the EGR cooler being bad.

    by '05 ford was on it's third supplier of head bolts,
    and while they are better, water in the intake
    is the kiss of death for the head gaskets. it doesn't
    take much.

    for those of you folks running a ford 6.0 diesel,
    vintage '03-> the single best thing you can do
    to save yourself a HUGE amount of money is to
    get a scanguage II at autozone for about $160,
    and set it up to monitor some vital engine readings.

    and change your engine oil every 5,000 miles....
    this diesel isn't your mommy's diesel... it has
    HEUI injectors that use engine oil to hydraulically
    operate the fuel injectors, and the load on the oil
    is horrific. the oil shears at a molecular level,
    and breaks down.... not the additives to the oil,
    the oil itself... this leads to damaged injectors
    from scuffing.... amsoil will still test fine, and
    the shear will let the injectors suffer. don't run
    extended drain intervals on this motor.

    also, RUNNING THIS ENGINE TYPE OUT OF FUEL
    IN MANY CASES WILL DAMAGE THE INJECTORS
    BEYOND REPAIR. air in the fuel system can break
    off injector tips.

    you ran your truck out of fuel? bummer. broken injector tips. $4,000 repair
    you put the wrong coolant in the truck? bummer. oil cooler failure. $5,000 repair
    you used a aftermarket oil filter? bummer. HPOP failure. $3,000 repair
    you let the batteries get almost dead, and then tried to start it? bummer. FICM failure. $1,300 repair
    you put a bully dog tuner on the motor, and broke the tranny? bummer. $4,500 repair
    you used aftermarket fuel filters? bummer. water in fuel... and the list goes on.

    and 'cause "the dealer" said it's broken, doesn't mean squat.
    i went to a highly recommended dealer, with the thing smoking
    enough white steam to kill every mosquito in four counties, and
    the idjit service writer told me my 2006 was "regenerating" and
    that was normal. nothing to worry about.

    regeneration wasn't adopted on the 6.0 until 2007.
    idjit. blithering idjit. and that was the most highly recommended
    ford truck dealership in 100 miles of where i live.
    Last edited by Fulthrotl; 07-29-12 at 04:03 PM.
    “Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day;
    teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.”

  3. #43
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    If nothing else, its bad when the customer knows more about the truck than the dealer, insult to injury.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by readydave8 View Post
    If nothing else, its bad when the customer knows more about the truck than the dealer, insult to injury.
    That reminds me when I bought a new Pontiac sunbird with a 4cy4sp that I bought for my wife. It was probably one of the biggest piles of crap that I ever bought but it was a very nice looking car, metallic blue with a blue landau top, spoked wire wheel type hubcaps, etc. She had a problem with it hesitating big time when she tried to accelerate to enter the interstate.
    We were going on vacation and left the car at the Pontiac dealer for a whole week expecting it to be fixed when we returned. Ya, right, same problem.
    I had been dong some reading and found that Buick used the same power train and had a service bulletin on that exact same problem. I went to the Buick service counter and asked them if I could have a photo copy of the bulletin which they did. I gave the $5 (probably like $20 in today’s money) for their trouble and drove my wife's sunbird back to the Pontiac service garage, pull in and handed the service bulletin to the manager and said "here, fix it." They finally fixed it.
    Sometime there are people that have to work very hard to rise to the level of their incompetence.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by readydave8 View Post
    If nothing else, its bad when the customer knows more about the truck than the dealer, insult to injury.
    i've had very poor experience with ford dealers, going back to 1978.

    the one that sold me this van had to reflash the computer to enable
    the cruise control, which was an add for me. they took it out to test
    drive it, and crossed a RR crossing, getting enough big air to break
    the windshield when it landed, right in the center from the flexing.

    every tool and material item in the back of the van looked like it had
    been poured into a large can, and shaken.

    broken windsheld, front wheels out of alignment, 220 miles.
    welcome to ford service.

    they denied the whole thing, claimed i broke the windshield.
    i had already welded strut on the floor of the van for the racking,
    and i told them they could either fix it or take it back.

    the second windshield they put in was pretty deeply scratched
    on the passenger side, right at eye level.

    the third windshield they put in was 1/2" off center.

    the fourth windshield they put in is still there, but in running
    a razor around the windshield pocket, they scored the paint,
    leading to the body rusting thru along the top of the windsheld,
    leading to a leak.

    i have some rust bullet, and a plan to pull off the rubber molding,
    and fix the rust with the rust bullet, and silicone it back up.

    with the experience of the 6.0, coupled with the experience of
    ford service, i'll never have anything to do with a ford product
    again, and i've been driving fords since 1972.
    “Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day;
    teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.”

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulthrotl View Post
    i've had very poor experience with ford dealers, going back to 1978.

    the one that sold me this van had to reflash the computer to enable
    the cruise control, which was an add for me. they took it out to test
    drive it, and crossed a RR crossing, getting enough big air to break
    the windshield when it landed, right in the center from the flexing.

    every tool and material item in the back of the van looked like it had
    been poured into a large can, and shaken.

    broken windsheld, front wheels out of alignment, 220 miles.
    welcome to ford service.

    they denied the whole thing, claimed i broke the windshield.
    i had already welded strut on the floor of the van for the racking,
    and i told them they could either fix it or take it back.

    the second windshield they put in was pretty deeply scratched
    on the passenger side, right at eye level.

    the third windshield they put in was 1/2" off center.

    the fourth windshield they put in is still there, but in running
    a razor around the windshield pocket, they scored the paint,
    leading to the body rusting thru along the top of the windsheld,
    leading to a leak.

    i have some rust bullet, and a plan to pull off the rubber molding,
    and fix the rust with the rust bullet, and silicone it back up.

    with the experience of the 6.0, coupled with the experience of
    ford service, i'll never have anything to do with a ford product
    again, and i've been driving fords since 1972.
    I have been hearing about Ford's getting Cummins conversions, but since 1998 & newer diesels in CA have to have smog inspections, doubt it would fly in California, but who knows it may pass muster. Good luck w/ your van, I sniveled about $800 for new upper & lower ball joints for my Dodge but w/ over 200K on it & the OEM ones had no zerk fittings for lubrication, that was the most spent on the truck in the 6 years I have owned it....

  7. #47
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    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
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    Quote Originally Posted by readydave8 View Post
    If nothing else, its bad when the customer knows more about the truck than the dealer, insult to injury.

    Of course people like to complain here about customers that think they know more about electrical than electricians.

    There are very good auto mechanics out there. They are hard to find, and if you find one they are hard to get appointments with for good reason. Only go to dealers (in general) with warranty issues, after warranty is expired get someone that knows what they are doing. And Fulthrotl - the experience you described sounds like mostly dealer repair shop problems and not Ford problems. Not saying Ford, or any other automaker never had problems with a vehicle, or several vehicles and similar components, at times, but they made things worse than they were, with their own activity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fulthrotl View Post
    i've had very poor experience with ford dealers, going back to 1978.

    the one that sold me this van had to reflash the computer to enable
    the cruise control, which was an add for me. they took it out to test
    drive it, and crossed a RR crossing, getting enough big air to break
    the windshield when it landed, right in the center from the flexing.

    every tool and material item in the back of the van looked like it had
    been poured into a large can, and shaken.

    broken windsheld, front wheels out of alignment, 220 miles.
    welcome to ford service.

    they denied the whole thing, claimed i broke the windshield.
    i had already welded strut on the floor of the van for the racking,
    and i told them they could either fix it or take it back.

    the second windshield they put in was pretty deeply scratched
    on the passenger side, right at eye level.

    the third windshield they put in was 1/2" off center.

    the fourth windshield they put in is still there, but in running
    a razor around the windshield pocket, they scored the paint,
    leading to the body rusting thru along the top of the windsheld,
    leading to a leak.

    i have some rust bullet, and a plan to pull off the rubber molding,
    and fix the rust with the rust bullet, and silicone it back up.

    with the experience of the 6.0, coupled with the experience of
    ford service, i'll never have anything to do with a ford product
    again, and i've been driving fords since 1972.

  8. #48
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    Clarkesville, Georgia
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post

    And Fulthrotl - the experience you described sounds like mostly dealer repair shop problems and not Ford problems. Not saying Ford, or any other automaker never had problems with a vehicle, or several vehicles and similar components, at times, but they made things worse than they were, with their own activity.
    The problems I had a few years ago happened to be Chevy not Ford but makes me emphasize with Fulthrotl's situation.

    I feel like the incompetent Ford dealer is a Ford problem, we don't buy Fords from the factory, we buy from authorized dealer.

    And like I say not meaning to single out Ford (even though Ford dealer in Clayton, Georgia was the reason I bought the new '87 Chevy truck that I later had headaches with).

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    3,100
    Quote Originally Posted by readydave8 View Post
    The problems I had a few years ago happened to be Chevy not Ford but makes me emphasize with Fulthrotl's situation.

    I feel like the incompetent Ford dealer is a Ford problem, we don't buy Fords from the factory, we buy from authorized dealer.

    And like I say not meaning to single out Ford (even though Ford dealer in Clayton, Georgia was the reason I bought the new '87 Chevy truck that I later had headaches with).
    It is not only the domestic dealers that are incompetent either, I went thru four different Toyota dealers in two different states that kept throwing fuel pumps on my Tundra, after the last dealer failed to fix the problem (didn't get 5 miles from the dealer) they said "We noticed the electrical connector on the fuel pump was cracked" after they got it back, which was what I thought the problem was before the first pump was put on.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    There are very good auto mechanics out there. They are hard to find, and if you find
    one they are hard to get appointments with for good reason. Only go to dealers
    (in general) with warranty issues, after warranty is expired get someone that knows
    what they are doing. And Fulthrotl - the experience you described sounds like mostly
    dealer repair shop problems and not Ford problems. Not saying Ford, or any other
    automaker never had problems with a vehicle, or several vehicles and similar
    components, at times, but they made things worse than they were, with their own
    activity.
    i've never sought out a dealer unless it was a factory warranty issue.

    my last econoline purchased new, went 488,000 without so much
    as a valve job... and it never saw the inside of a dealership.
    i did burn up it's transmission in a sandwash once, fueled by
    half a fifth of jack, and had to drive it 30 miles backwards, drunk,
    to get it home, but i can't fault the trans for that now, can i?
    reverse and park were all that were left. the rest were neutrals...

    and there are good mechanics working for ford dealerships.... one
    of the online diesel forums has a number of them, and they help
    out hugely, and the advice is excellent.

    they are in places like british columbia, texas, minnesota....
    nowhere near me... ;-)
    “Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day;
    teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.”

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