In-Use covers as applied to the code.

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Bullcub145

Member
Location
Savanna, IL
I am having a bit of an argument with my department manager about whether or not the code applies to all things. The industrial plant I work at has never really been upgraded over the years, I am incharge of doing the upgrades to distribution systems. I am currently trying to bring all the outlets in the plant up to the code for GFCI protection. This is not the issue as much as the issue over whether or not an in-use cover shall be used in all damp and wet locations. While we do agree on the fact that they need to be used, we disagree as to which outlets nee them. I say ALL outlets in damp and wet locations need them. He say only those outlets that are installed after the code change had been impllemented. Can someone help me with this dilema? I nned to know if there is such a thing as a grandfather clause when it comes to the NEC.
 

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
my AHJ has always said that if it was Legal when it was installed, it stays that way.

That being said, OSHA might have a different take on it. Do you want to get electrocuted or not? Does you plant want it to be safer or not. They changed it for a reason, (well usually they do, not always). but at least you can see the point of this one. can your boss?
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Damp locations not required. Only outles exposed to direct rain/spray. In resi work, an 8' overhang 8' high (laniai/porch)will generally eliminate the need for inuse covers.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
The 2011 code did not make the requirement for in-use covers apply when receptacles in wet locations are replaced, but they did make the weather resistant rule apply. 406.4(D)(6)
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Obviously if you are not changing the receptacles or covers then you don't need to do anything. If you make any modifications then the new rules apply, IMO. That being said damp location areas do not need in use covers. In use covers are for areas exposed to water ----wet location.
 

Bullcub145

Member
Location
Savanna, IL
Ok, I understand the code. I just didn't have my code book in front of me when I made my first post. I guess what I am asking is... If I have outlets outside in an area where it is not under an overhang and is in a wet location, and they are already GFCI protected. I say they need to have In-use covers installed for safety reasons and because the "code" requires it. He is saying that they don't need them cause it is grandfathered in and no one would expect a whole plant to update their electrical for one code change. I think its a money issue that they want to forego safety to save money. Does the "AHJ" have the final say or does the "code"
 

Bullcub145

Member
Location
Savanna, IL
Obviously if you are not changing the receptacles or covers then you don't need to do anything. If you make any modifications then the new rules apply, IMO. That being said damp location areas do not need in use covers. In use covers are for areas exposed to water ----wet location.

So are you saying that the code only applies to new installations or updated installations?
 

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
short answer: YES

I am with you, but this is the way it usually is, once more from the top.

If the work was permitted when properly installed, and passed inspection, it is good to go until you drop dead. now around here you dont ever have to prove that. and they still put paper stickers on work that passes, which deteriorates or falls off outside in a couple years.

bewary that the next 'cost cutting item' at your company isn't replacing you. ie play nice with the boss.

this is why you don't see them installing afci breakers in existing houses, among a million other things.
 
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Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Ok, I understand the code. I just didn't have my code book in front of me when I made my first post. I guess what I am asking is... If I have outlets outside in an area where it is not under an overhang and is in a wet location, and they are already GFCI protected. I say they need to have In-use covers installed for safety reasons and because the "code" requires it. He is saying that they don't need them cause it is grandfathered in and no one would expect a whole plant to update their electrical for one code change. I think its a money issue that they want to forego safety to save money. Does the "AHJ" have the final say or does the "code"

Your boss is correct. They are grandfathered in. AHJ has no say in the matter. How would you like it if the AHJ knocked on your door at home and said. "YOUR RANGE RECEPTICAL REQUIRES A 4 WIRE CIRCUIT , I WANT IT CHANGED. etc.etc every time the code changed???
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
... If you make any modifications then the new rules apply, IMO. ...
If that is correct, why do we have specific rules in the code that require compliance when a replacement is made? See 406.(D)(4), (5) & (6) in the 2011 code. If the general rules of the code required compliance with the current code rules for the replacement of a device, than there would be no reason for these code sections.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If that is correct, why do we have specific rules in the code that require compliance when a replacement is made? See 406.(D)(4), (5) & (6) in the 2011 code. If the general rules of the code required compliance with the current code rules for the replacement of a device, than there would be no reason for these code sections.

True enough but that is for replacement of recep. There is no exception or allowance for in-use covers. IMO, the in-use cover must be installed when changing a device that req. in-use covers.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
True enough but that is for replacement of recep. There is no exception or allowance for in-use covers. IMO, the in-use cover must be installed when changing a device that req. in-use covers.
How is that different from the specific rules that I cited? If we need a rule to say that you have to use a TR or WR receptacle when you are replacing one, then I think you need the same type of rule for the wet location covers. Without the specific rules that require the use of GFCI, AFCI, TR and WR replacement receptacles, I would agree with you. I would also agree that prior the the specific replacement rules that the current code would apply for replacements. Now the CMP has made it very clear to me that the current code does not apply to replacement type work unless there is a specific rule.
 

Bullcub145

Member
Location
Savanna, IL
Okay, sounds good. So, if I remind him that if an outlet is outside in a "wet Location", it needs to be changed to (not only) a GFCI but a "WR" GFCI. In which case I would be replacing the device, in which case I would have to bring it up to code, in which case it would be required to have an in-use cover on said device, correct?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Okay, sounds good. So, if I remind him that if an outlet is outside in a "wet Location", it needs to be changed to (not only) a GFCI but a "WR" GFCI. In which case I would be replacing the device, in which case I would have to bring it up to code, in which case it would be required to have an in-use cover on said device, correct?

Well not according to Don but IMO, if you are upgrading the place then why wouldn't you do this? Why go thru the trouble to change the device and not upgrade the cover. I find that most of the old wp covers are usually shot anyway. The gasket is usually worn on the edges.
 
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