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Thread: working live on electrical systems

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Easton, Maryland NEC: 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by zog View Post

    It sounds like you could really use some training yourself and stop being one of those guys trying to fight the system. Arc flash regulations are not going away, they are in place to protect people from serious injuries, 4-5 people a day are sent to burn centers from arc flash indicents, you ever been in a burn unit? I have, it is hell on earth.

    Spot on Zog.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derék

  2. #32
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    Feb 2003
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by the blur View Post
    Because the EMPLOYER can be a contractor, or a property owner hiring a "professional". Mrs. Jones hires an EC. Is Mrs Jones the EMPLOYER of record ???
    Maybe maybe not. I think you will find the legal definition will involve the level of 'control' over the employee and how the work is performed. The 'who is the employer' question also includes things like liability insurance, workmans comp, and unemployment insurance.

    But my point is; this question exists whether we are discussing energized electrical work under NFPA70E of if we are discussing any other type of work.
    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    6,292
    Quote Originally Posted by the blur View Post
    Mr. Zog,
    My meter fails while testing panel voltage. I had it on the wrong setting, the meter blows up, and causes a flash. I'm qualified, & I'm burnt.
    Now I get to sue the home owner or building owner because my meter failed.
    No you are not qualified, if you were you would have been wearing the proper PPE and would not be burnt.

    Quote Originally Posted by the blur View Post
    Your obviously OK with this logic, and will defend it till the very death, because the laws are written and in stone, even though they are WRONG.
    How is protecting employees from workplace hazards wrong exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by the blur View Post
    One day 70e will be overturned, or completely re-written.
    No it won't, however someday you will be out of a job if you don't comply. EC's all over the world have been changing the way they do work and approach safety (Including many menbers here), those that do not will start to lose work for not being qualified. Will homeowners ever care? I doubt it, but commercial and industrial customers already do care.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Portland Oregon
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    2
    Racking switchgear in and out is OK if no load is present. However testing switchgear for proper operation fault conditions require flash suits and hot gloves.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna123 View Post
    Racking switchgear in and out is OK if no load is present. However testing switchgear for proper operation fault conditions require flash suits and hot gloves.
    Huh???? Where do you get that from? It is not even possible to rack any breaker in or out when under load, they all have "racking interlocks" to prevent that from happening. In fact, racking breakers in or out (not under load) is perhaps the most dangerous (High risk) task you can do.

    This breaker was not under load
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Im7PLduwc
    Last edited by zog; 04-06-12 at 03:03 PM.

  6. #36
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    Aug 2011
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    cyberspace
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    Who is the employer??
    the EC owner, or the property owner ?????

  7. #37
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    Feb 2003
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by the blur View Post
    Who is the employer??
    the EC owner, or the property owner ?????
    simple question, not a simple answer.

    Who has 'control' over the person doing the work and the methods they use to accomplish the task?
    In the cases where the property owner has a contract with the Electrical Contractor (EC), the person performing the labor is most likely an employee of the EC. The terms of the contract spell out, usually implicitly although sometimes explicitly, who has 'control of the worker'.

    In other situations the property owner may contract for labor only, like a temp agency, in which case they probably retain 'control of the worker'.
    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    stanton
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    I have been following these post with great interest and a few points that have been made are what is done at my employment without much ppe on which i like to know if we are right or not. A point has just been made about racking breakers that it is dangerous. I see guys working with the switchgear and generator where they test the generator. Is working with the test switches where the gen breaker is put on and the main is taken offline considered racking a breaker when testing generator ?
    .

  9. #39
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    Feb 2005
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye23 View Post
    I have been following these post with great interest and a few points that have been made are what is done at my employment without much ppe on which i like to know if we are right or not. A point has just been made about racking breakers that it is dangerous. I see guys working with the switchgear and generator where they test the generator. Is working with the test switches where the gen breaker is put on and the main is taken offline considered racking a breaker when testing generator ?
    .
    Racking a breaker is removing or inserting it from the cell, usually with a hand crank but more and more commonly these days with a remote racking "robot".

    It sounds like what you are talking about is operating breakers from a remote station which would likely not have any arc flash hazard but hard to know for sure with such a vauge description.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Jersey
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter d View Post
    There is no amount of PPE that will protect you .

    It's pretty horrific.

    At a ceu, was talking to a gentleman that mentioned the same thing. Mentioned tests with dummies and arc flash and heat into the thousands of degrees..............well the dummy was still vaporized.

    Gets you thinking..........(well now gets me thinking even when I "just" remove a panel cover).
    " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

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