Fighting osha

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kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Was there an exposed live part? I routinely have splices without any tape, using those Kup-L-Tap bugs ...
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Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
No exposed live parts,an inch of wire is visible from over stripping or under taping,is it worth fighting?

There's an inch of bare copper showing but no exposed live parts??? What am I missing?

Just be glad you didn't get a fine for not using a safety harness in a boom lift, etc. I hear those go MUCH higher!! Around $20,000 for being over 20 feet, or so I was told!
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Fight it, at the least you should be able to get the amount reduced and you might be able to get it removed altogether.

Keep in mind if you get a repeat violation for the same issue in the next three years the fine is $70,000.00
 

wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
OSHA's other issue is lack of strain relief on the connection. Tape the two ends a few inches back from the connection, and tape the wire nuts on to keep them from loosening and exposing current-carrying conductors.
 

wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
OSHA nightmare

OSHA nightmare

One of our subs installed temporary lights 12 ft. above the deck, connecting them with wire nuts. Three weeks later, masons came along to put up a wall. One of the wire nuts on the light string near their scaffold came off (did the masons remove it?) and they called OSHA. OSHA fined the mason contractor as the "exposing employer," AND the electrician, as the "creating employer," the one who created the hazard--even though the electrician hadn't been on site for three weeks!
 

sgunsel

Senior Member
You can, and probably should, object. if you demonstrate that there is no hazard, there is no violation. At minimum, contesting a citation usually results in significant penalty reduction. If they insist on a penalty, request spending the penalty amount on safety training instead of handing it over - at least you get something for it. Problem for $3k, it may cost more to fight it in court than you can hope to recover. I'd ask for a hearing and see what you can do on your own. Unless there is some other issue, just review the applicable OSHA standards (available on-line) and focus on the cited reg. Chances are the inspector knows a LOT less than you do about NEC, and likely the OSHA regs on electrical safety.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Keep in mind if you get a repeat violation for the same issue in the next three years the fine is $70,000.00

WOW. 3k to 70k, that seems like the logical next step for showing an inch of black, white and green....:roll:

Going by that example, is the fine the same for extension cords when the cord ends start pulling off the end exposing the wires?
 
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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
...One of the wire nuts on the light string near their scaffold came off (did the masons remove it?) and they called OSHA. OSHA fined the mason contractor as the "exposing employer,"..

Thats funny right there.

Why can't these guys get along? All they needed to do was call the electricians and tell them there was a problem. Or did the electrician give them a hard time on other issues and they thought they would get payback.

I can never figure out why subs always seem to think their work is more important than other subs. The reality is all parts of the construction have to be done and have to work together to accomplish the final finished project.
 

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
If you contest the citation, you better do so swiftly within the alloted timeframe, approx 15 days I believe after issuance. If you miss the deadline, you SOL. The OSHRC often reverses and dismisses citations. The burden is on OSHA to prove a violation existed.

Good information on Employers rights following a inspection:

http://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3000.pdf
 
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wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
Thats funny right there.

Why can't these guys get along? All they needed to do was call the electricians and tell them there was a problem. Or did the electrician give them a hard time on other issues and they thought they would get payback.

I can never figure out why subs always seem to think their work is more important than other subs. The reality is all parts of the construction have to be done and have to work together to accomplish the final finished project.

I think they were trying to go after their boss, and didn't expect the electrician to get sucked into it.
 

wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
Going by that example, is the fine the same for extension cords when the cord ends start pulling off the end exposing the wires?

Pretty much, yes. For a serious violation with serious gravity, they start with $7,000 and mark it down according to company size, history and a couple of other things. There's a formula. The Area Director is authorized to reduce the original amount by no more than 30% at the informal conference, but the employer has to make other concessions, like additional training or something. If the employer contests the citation, the 30% is off the table, and you have to have a conversation with the solicitor (the Labor Dept's lawyer). If that doesn't work, you get a trial before an administrative law judge. You don't need a lawyer there, but it helps. The burden of proof is, indeed, on the government, but because it's a civil case, not criminal, the burden is "the preponderance of the evidence," not "beyond doubt." The ALJ's decision can be appealed to the Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission, and their final order can be appealed to the U.S. District Court of Appeals.
 
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