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Thread: Recepticle at HVAC disconnects.

  1. #1
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    Recepticle at HVAC disconnects.

    Art 210.63 requires recept's (usually GFIs) not to be installed on the load side of the disconnect. The wording here confuses me since it makes me wonder if tapping the line side is OK. Problems I see there are putting a 20 A recept on a twenty A circuit might lead to nuisance tripping of the supplying breaker, and could you even put a 20 A recept on a larger circuit? I would think you couldn't. Does this requirement point to something I'm missing, or does it really make sure you don't tap the disconnect at all?

    Thanks for all info.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimalex View Post
    Art 210.63 requires recept's (usually GFIs) not to be installed on the load side of the disconnect. The wording here confuses me since it makes me wonder if tapping the line side is OK. Problems I see there are putting a 20 A recept on a twenty A circuit might lead to nuisance tripping of the supplying breaker, and could you even put a 20 A recept on a larger circuit? I would think you couldn't. Does this requirement point to something I'm missing, or does it really make sure you don't tap the disconnect at all?

    Thanks for all info.
    I'm sure the intent was not to allow someone to tap a receptacle to the load side of the disconnect because there usually is no grounded conductor available (neutral). only a equipment ground which cannot be used as a neutral.
    Last edited by qcroanoke; 04-05-12 at 09:37 AM.

  3. #3
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    Usually I pull a 20 AWG hot and neutral in the pipe with the circuits supplying the equipment, adjust pipe and wire sizes accordingly, and nipple off the disconnect to set the GFI. I just wanted to make sure there weren't any circumstances allowing me to use the line side of the disconnect, for say a 40 amp 3 phase circuit, so i wouldn't have to pull a hot wire, which would allow for not derating the conductors since the neutral wouldn't be counted as a current carrying conductor (310.15.B.5.(a) ). I just can't think that a 20 A recepticle on a 40 A circuit breaker is going to be legal. So, I guess, why wouldn't the code just say "don't tap the line or load side of a disconnect for a service outlet"?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimalex View Post
    Usually I pull a 20 AWG hot and neutral in the pipe with the circuits supplying the equipment, adjust pipe and wire sizes accordingly, and nipple off the disconnect to set the GFI. I just wanted to make sure there weren't any circumstances allowing me to use the line side of the disconnect, for say a 40 amp 3 phase circuit, so i wouldn't have to pull a hot wire, which would allow for not derating the conductors since the neutral wouldn't be counted as a current carrying conductor (310.15.B.5.(a) ). I just can't think that a 20 A recepticle on a 40 A circuit breaker is going to be legal. So, I guess, why wouldn't the code just say "don't tap the line or load side of a disconnect for a service outlet"?
    A 20 amp receptacle installed on a 40 amp circuit is not code compliant, but if I size the feeder to the A/C disconnect correctly for both the A/C unit and the receptacle and follow the feeder tap rules in 240.21(B) I could tap off the line side of the A/C disconnect and supply a receptacle provided that I protect the receptacle with a properly sized OCPD. You would also need to bring in a neutral with the feeder conductors.

    Chris

  5. #5
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    Thanks, Chris. Just what I needed to see.

    Jim

  6. #6
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    I say let the hvac installer install it. It seems they know more than we do, and are telling customers they are allowed to do the electrical portion of the install any how........ At least in my area. Strangly enough, they violate code each time!
    Reward the hard worker and drop the buddy buddy slacks!!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by resistance View Post
    I say let the hvac installer install it. It seems they know more than we do, and are telling customers they are allowed to do the electrical portion of the install any how........ At least in my area. Strangly enough, they violate code each time!
    Hah! in my experience, EVERYBODY who isn't an electrician thinks they do better electrical work than we do!

  8. #8
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    Don't tap the load side because the guy working on the unit may need to plug into recep but have power off the unit while he's working.

  9. #9
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    We use CHs DPU222RGF. New models have the required WR device. Pull two, circuits, one for the A/C and one for the device. If you are on a low budget it can be one of the required two outside recepts.
    Tom
    TBLO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimalex View Post
    Hah! in my experience, EVERYBODY who isn't an electrician thinks they do better electrical work than we do!
    Exactly!!!
    Reward the hard worker and drop the buddy buddy slacks!!!

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