Disco on pedistal

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mortimer

third party inspector
Location
New England
Occupation
retired
I thought that there was a new rule in 230 that we need a disconnect at the pedistal and 4 wire to the panel.:eek:hmy:
 

Craigv

Senior Member
The pedistal 30' from the home to the the MDC inside the home in the basement where the cable comes through the concrete :roll:

Is this a ganged meter pedestal serving multiple dwelling units (homes)? I'm not picturing your setup well, but there is no new requirement in 230 to put the service disconnect in any particular location.

230.70(A) still applies, but never forced a specific location such as a pedestal.
 

mortimer

third party inspector
Location
New England
Occupation
retired
It's serving two homes. From transformer to meter out to houses.
Is it just trailers that need a disco before going back underground and entering :?
 

Craigv

Senior Member
It's serving two homes. From transformer to meter out to houses.
Is it just trailers that need a disco before going back underground and entering :?

I can look more closely this evening, but I don't recall anything in the mobile home, RV or Park Model sections that specify where to put the service disconnect. But mobile homes, etc. typically have specific inlet cordsets in 30, 40, 50 and 60 amp sizes that would make it far more convenient to have a service disconnect, OCPD, GES and receptacle someplace convenient, and it's more economical to have one pedestal with a meter/main combo near the trailer.

For your situation I think you can run triplex above or below to the house and install the Service Equipment there.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
For your situation I think you can run triplex above or below to the house and install the Service Equipment there.

It sounds to me like that's what is already in place if I'm picturing it correctly in my mind.

The meter is on a pedestal next to the transformer,and, as others have commented in the past, is just a "wide spot in the road".

The conductors to the house are Service Conductors 3 wire.

The grounding,bonding, and 1st means of overcurrent protection is hopefully in the panel in the basement.

The loadcenter in the basement ( or MDC I'm taking it as your abbreviation for "Main Distribution Center") more than likely has a Main Breaker in it which serves both as the first means of Overcurrent Protection Device and the Means of Disconnect at or near the closest point of entry into the structure which is fine.

With that being said, if the pedestal at the Transformer is actually a Meter/Main with overcurrent protection, then there will be different opinions of whether or not a 3 wire or 4 wire installation to the house would be required.

Some will say that run from the pedestal to the house is still Service Conductors since the power company may retain the right to change it out to a Meter Only in the future.

Some will say that the run from the Meter/Main to the house is a feeder and thus requires a 4 wire installation.

If there is only a meter at the pedestal by the transformer, then, I'm in the 3 wire installation to the house group,
but,
If there is a Combo Meter/Main a the pedestal by the transformer, then, I'm in the 4 wire installation to the house group.

JAP>

JAP>






Th
 
With that being said, if the pedestal at the Transformer is actually a Meter/Main with overcurrent protection, then there will be different opinions of whether or not a 3 wire or 4 wire installation to the house would be required.

Some will say that run from the pedestal to the house is still Service Conductors since the power company may retain the right to change it out to a Meter Only in the future.

Some will say that the run from the Meter/Main to the house is a feeder and thus requires a 4 wire installation.

If there is only a meter at the pedestal by the transformer, then, I'm in the 3 wire installation to the house group,
but,
If there is a Combo Meter/Main a the pedestal by the transformer, then, I'm in the 4 wire installation to the house group.




Th

There is debate about this??? :happyno:
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Not even a remote chance of debate. The conductors are what they are until the equipment changes, not because the equipment might change in the future.

Go ask K-wired about this subject and let me know how it turns out. :)


JAP>
 

Craigv

Senior Member
Go ask K-wired about this subject and let me know how it turns out. :)


JAP>

The Code is prescriptive, not anticipatory. It is quite clear that a single phase service can have 3 service conductors up to the service disconnect. Then a GES must be installed, and an EGC must be used from the service equipment to all downstream equipment. If a service disconnect is at the pedestal, 4-wire runs from there to the house. If the utility decides to remove that service disconnect, then the EGC can be a bond, or could be abandoned. This depends upon local code and/or utility requirements for a GES or bonding at the meter base. NEC only cares about grounding from the point of the Service Equipment and on from there.
 

Adamjamma

Senior Member
So, if the disconnect is removed or may be removed in the future, and you are using ground rods or concrete encased rebar for ground system... then you need to bond if the utility required a ground rod at the meter post, correct? Just trying to make sure I understand the bonding etc...
case to consider.. meter on post twenty feet from house, on a retaining wall system, so meter is eight feet above disconnect but is at proper height for street ... dropped six feet to bend.. meter and stuff on post grounded as part of retaining wall foundation...
1/0 wire in conduit run as per local inspector from retaining wall foundation rebar to rebar in foundation of house. Would there still be needed a number 6 bonding cable? Or is the 1/0 fine?

Just trying to make sure...lol..think it is already above standards
 

Craigv

Senior Member
yes, 550.10 describes feeders for anything with wheels

~RJ~

It sure does, but the OP's description mentioned the panel was in the basement, so it's unlikely any wheels or mobility are involved here, just an unusual utility setup.

Edited to add: a mobile home would have a service disconnect "before going underground and coming back up" as the OP wrote, because mobile homes have feeders, not services. So a pedestal serving a mobile home should have meter and service disconnect, with a 40 or 50 amp 4-wire feeder into the structure, and a separate "main" disconnect inside.
 
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jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
The Code is prescriptive, not anticipatory. It is quite clear that a single phase service can have 3 service conductors up to the service disconnect. Then a GES must be installed, and an EGC must be used from the service equipment to all downstream equipment. If a service disconnect is at the pedestal, 4-wire runs from there to the house. If the utility decides to remove that service disconnect, then the EGC can be a bond, or could be abandoned. This depends upon local code and/or utility requirements for a GES or bonding at the meter base. NEC only cares about grounding from the point of the Service Equipment and on from there.

And that's where there's been more than one discussion on this forum before as to where that actually is when it comes to Power Company owned pedestal or a Customer owned pedestal.



JAP>
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
And that's where there's been more than one discussion on this forum before as to where that actually is when it comes to Power Company owned pedestal or a Customer owned pedestal.



JAP>
Here a POCO owned/maintained/installed disconnect (pole/pedestal doesn't really matter) is not considered to be the service disconnecting means by AHJ. Reason is POCO can change it to non fused during a repair, upgrade, etc. Been times I have had to put my own service disconnect right next to POCO supplied equipment that otherwise would have been sufficient to call the service disconnect. If on a building instead of a pole or pedestal, it doesn't get asked who owns it nearly as often though and might be able to work things to your liking regardless of who does own it, but usually equipment on a building is owner's equipment and not POCO's.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Here a POCO owned/maintained/installed disconnect (pole/pedestal doesn't really matter) is not considered to be the service disconnecting means by AHJ. Reason is POCO can change it to non fused during a repair, upgrade, etc. Been times I have had to put my own service disconnect right next to POCO supplied equipment that otherwise would have been sufficient to call the service disconnect. If on a building instead of a pole or pedestal, it doesn't get asked who owns it nearly as often though and might be able to work things to your liking regardless of who does own it, but usually equipment on a building is owner's equipment and not POCO's.

I've ran into it also.

It's not as cut and dried as everyone might think at times.

JAP>
 
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