need to puchase small plc

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a.bisnath

Senior Member
I need to purchase a resonably priced small plc for bakery mixer preferably online,needs 4 inputs and 4 outputs I think it may be better than all the rewiring of hard wire relays and timers may I ask for some reccommendations I know there are many brands out there for a simple brick type plc ,but I ask from working experience which type is known to be less trouble some,I have worked with large arrays but never small ones.
 

realolman

Senior Member
I have had some good experience with Beckhoff.
You can get their programming software free online, used a crossover cord, and their tech support I believe may be the best I've ever encountered.
 

a.bisnath

Senior Member
what is a smart relay?

what is a smart relay?

Do excuse my ignorance ,but I do not know what a smart relay is,Indeed allen bradley is good I have worked with them since the days of the family 1 will check out but their software is usually expensive,also I am looking for something that I can programme with my laptop,for now I am going to google the word beckhoff
 

jim dungar

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Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Do excuse my ignorance ,but I do not know what a smart relay is,Indeed allen bradley is good I have worked with them since the days of the family 1 will check out but their software is usually expensive,also I am looking for something that I can programme with my laptop,for now I am going to google the word beckhoff

Try googling Smart Relay, my search turned up, Schneider's Zelio SR, Rockwell's Pico, Idec's SmartRelay, and ones from Siemens, Omron, and others.

Usually a smart relay can be programmed directly from its front panel where a PLC requires separate software on a PC, this makes smart relays an ideal choice for replacing a few timers and interlocking relays. I have used them for things as diverse as confirming that a home generator completed its weekly test and for ringing bells at a church.
 

Jacob S

Senior Member
Has anyone here used PLC's from automation direct? They have several smaller units that might fit the bill. They look good, but i wonder how well they hold up compared to similar units from AB, siemens, etc. Reliability and no service calls is higher on my list than low initial cost!
 

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
Koyo makes theirs, as well as the GE Series 1 and the same unit for others. I've not found the quality to differ based on the nameplate.

With these, and others, what I have found is that the output devices, whether relay, transistor, or triac fail more often than anything else. I've adopted the practice of using external solid state or mechanical relays, usually with 24VDC drive, on all of them.

It is a more significant issue with the inductive loads I commonly deal with, solenoid operated hydraulic valves. Full power lamps with their inrush also stress the devices.

I have NOT used the newer Click units, but have bought a dozen or so of the $29 0.5A 24VDC supply for low current panel and instrument requirements. They've been trouble free. The software for the Click is free, as is the software for small (under 100 words) applications on their larger DirectLogic units.
 

eric9822

Senior Member
Location
Camarillo, CA
Occupation
Electrical and Instrumentation Tech
I like the AB Pico controller as well. Amazingly enough the programming software is free via download.
 
Do excuse my ignorance ,but I do not know what a smart relay is,Indeed allen bradley is good I have worked with them since the days of the family 1 will check out but their software is usually expensive,also I am looking for something that I can programme with my laptop,for now I am going to google the word beckhoff

The original, developed by Kloeckner-Moeller is now owned by Eaton and called: EASY Intelligent Relay.
http://search.eaton.com/cgi-bin/query-meta?v%3Aproject=Electrical&query=EASY+Intelligent+Relays&ssUserText=EASY+Intelligent+Relays&x=9&y=10
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I've used a few different smart relays so I figured I'd mention something.

The Telemecanique's work pretty well and are fairly straightforward to program, get a manual if you're not going to program it on your pc. I didn't get a manual and was able to figure out how to program it using the help feature on the computer.

I have a Teco, they're cheap and fairly easy to program on a pc, but I don't care for their manual and all the Chinese instructions. The one I'm using has been running my sprinkler system for a couple years now with no issues.

The AB Pico is too high priced for my tastes, it's probably $30-40 higher than a comparable smart relay.

It seems like most smart relays are the same aside from different badging, so paying extra for AB doesn't really make sense to me...

Last of all, if you don't need a screen on it, and are looking for something with a few more features, I wouldn't hesitate to take a look at the Click from Automation Direct. I've got a couple here at home I've tinkered with to see if I like 'em and they seem like a great product for the price. Very easy to program, Automation Direct has a great instruction manual online for building a program. I'll use these in a heartbeat, when I come across a project that could use them. Since they're so inexpensive, even if you have a project that a smart relay could handle, these might be worth taking a look at.
 
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spikes2020

Member
Location
Nashville, TN
I like the AB Pico controller as well. Amazingly enough the programming software is free via download.


I have used the Pico as well, you can get the one with the LCD screen and program it right there on the job, nice if you need to change something. Very nice and easy to use!


Only Issues i have is you can only have 3 to 4 contacts per row to either an internal relay or external one. So if you need a lot of things on the same line you end up chaining a lot of internal relays together.


1652737.jpg


http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12762/2181376/2416247/1239730/3676481/tab5.html
 
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Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
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EC - retired
We have used the picos for well alternation, replaced pivot panels with full auto start and reverse with interlocked aux chemical.pumps. Used them for speed sensing.... The Pro software does cost but corrects some faults in the free vs. It can be programed without the software but I would not recommend that process for any but the simplest of control.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
AB is close to coming out with the 800 micro series.

Free software.

8 in and 4 out for $85 list. Don't know what the discount level will be. Probably not more than 30%. Maybe not even that much.

Supposedly the free software comes with free tech support.

Allegedly was supposed to come out this week but there are firmware delays pushing it out.
 

a.bisnath

Senior Member
just saying thanks

just saying thanks

do appreciate the info I am fascinated by this smart relay,will do some resarch into the various brands mentioned
 

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
Direct Automation makes a PLC called the "CLICK". 69 bucks. 79 if you need some analog I/O. The soft ware is free!! I hsve used these all over the place and they work great. You can program a thousand rungs of logic into one of these and they have a drum stepper block with 16 outs . They are a very powerfull PLC for dirt cheap!!
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
The original, developed by Klockner-Moeller is now owned by Eaton and called: EASY Intelligent Relay.

Programmable relays... the "gateway drug" to automation. PR History 101...

Actually the very first one was the Siemens LOGO relay, which was later brand labeled by Idec as the Smart Relay (contrary to popular belief that Idec makes it and Siemens brand labels it). The Moeller / Eaton EASY relay was copied from the LOGO, then later brand-labeled by A-B as the Pico. Then lots of other people like Mitsubishi (later branded by Schneider) and Teco (the one sold by Factorymation) got into the game. That explains why they basically all look similar, the LOGO was so wildly popular all over the world that everyone else wanted to get in on it. Siemens still commands more market share of these things around the world than all the others combined.

LOGO, circa 1996
Siemens_LOGO.JPG

Idec Smart Relay circa 1997
fl1c_promo.gif

Moeller EASY (now Eaton) circa 1998
easyinfo-250x250.jpg

A-B Pico, circa 2005
1760_PicoControllers_front1--lgprod.jpg

Mitsubishi Alpha circa 2002
Logic-Relay-1CNK9_AS01.JPG

Schneider Zelio circa 2002
1CNK9_AS01.JPG

Teco SG2, circa 2007
SG2.jpg


Omron (zen) and Crouzet (Millenium) are other smaller market share products like this available. There are also other brand labels of the above as well.

I think they are all good, some have specific features over the others that may or may not be helpful for you. The best approach in my opinion is to define exactly what you want to do and make sure what you select will do it, then buy from someone local that you know and trust to be in the game in the foreseeable future in case you need support. I'm not a big fan of on-line sales mainly because if too many people go that way, all the local people will get out of the business and then you will be at the total mercy of some 800# and the guy (or gal) in India/China/Russia etc. who picks up the phone and gets paid $1.00 per hour but knows next to nothing.
 

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
Programmable relays... the "gateway drug" to automation. PR History 101...

Actually the very first one ...
Well, either my memory is shot or Google fails me ... but back in the late 70s or early 80s, we used the "Intelligent Industrial Relay", marked I(superscript 2)R. I don't remember the supplier but Sylvania (they had an industrial line, affiliated with Joslyn Clark) sticks in my mind.
 
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