Home inspectors and Square D QO breakers

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Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I was doing two jobs yesterday. Both were repairs based on home inspections. Both contained factual errors about the electrical system repairs needed. In one case, the HI complained about nonsense and missed two obvious safety violations.

I thought about calling these guys and saying something like "Your inspection report contained errors and if you are willing to learn something I would be glad to explain why it's wrong." I figured they would likely just get mad or embarrassed and tell me to take a hike. Plus if I point out things that were missed, my client might get mad at me for causing additional expense if the HI issues a revised report. ( I did fix one of the easier to fix violations, the other would be very expensive to fix.)
 

junkhound

Senior Member
Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
Can someone figure a way to inform all home inspectors that 10 amp through 30 amp Square D QO breakers are rated by the manufacturer for termination of 1 or 2 conductors.......please.

+1.

Son sold house 10 years ago, HI did the same thing (and did not properly put the cover back on the panel properly either).

Wrote a short paragraph to each of the HI items for son's relator, realtor commented that she had never had anyone write up a complete refutation of the HI report with chapter and verse of each applicable code.

HI get hired to write up something, so they throw out a lot of crap. I imagine there are some valid HI comments, like 'big spot on LR ceiling indicated roof leak' or some items like that.??
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Like electricians there are good and bad HI's. Over the years I've dealt with some really bad ones especially when I sold my own house. They're taught to look for "double taps" often without a general understanding of why they're permitted or prohibited. I just write up something to explain their errors and move on.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I just write up something to explain their errors and move on.
Same here, I explain to the customer (buyer, seller, broker, whoever) that the HI incorrectly cited a non issue as a code violation.

Roger
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
I never see an HI report that mentions Codes. They are just full of captioned pictures now as if the item is an obvious bad thing; captions to the effect of: OMG, there's a WIRENUT in a PANEL!
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
best bet is to just write a response that asks what section of the code is being violated?

I never ask an HI anything. Besides, it's not their job to cite Code.

I write my own report to send to whoever is hiring me (usually the seller), that goes something like this:

Item 14: Double tab on breaker 7.
Repair: None required as breaker is UL listed for double tap.

Item 23: GFCI in downstairs bath fails to trip.
Repair: GFCI in downstairs bath is connected to an ungrounded circuit, which is allowed by NEC. As such, GFCI will not trip using a plug-in tester. Only the factory TEST button on the unit is an acceptable method of testing GFCI protection.

Items found not on HI report: Open junction box in basement. Repair: Splice placed in proper junction box. Missing covers on various boxes, which now have covers on them. Replaced 'zip-zord' used to feed range hood with NM. Hot/neutral reversed in receptacle in SE bedroom..... mis-wire corrected.


(I love finding and repairing stuff they miss!)



I take my own photos to show the before and after. I also include my license information on the report as well. Now the seller has something to fire back with.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
In many places Hi's are forbidden from citing code as they should be, after all they're not code inspectors.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
In many places Hi's are forbidden from citing code as they should be, after all they're not code inspectors.

This is true.

The problem is, they either are or are not liable for their opinion(s)

Today's example, HI claims the panel needs to be changed.......because....it's old

Now there are no further comments , nor evidence of him removing the cover to view whatever it's age and mileage had assumed.

Now if we go to NACHI, we'll find they've an entire 'panel checklist' , all tooless past unscrewing a panel cover and viewing the innards.

Keep in mind these items are not code based (although this crew could easily attach them) , they are an 'opinion based on detailed and documented visual investigation'

That's a huge dif when it comes to buyer/seller disputes, and gawd help ....litigation.....:(

jmho

~RJ~
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
best bet is to just write a response that asks what section of the code is being violated?
The problem I've seen is that they WILL cite the correct code section (110.14), but they don't understand that if the device is LISTED for two wires per terminal, it meets that code. Other than Square D QO 15-20A breakers, I don't think there are any others that allow two wires per terminal, hence the problem.
 

JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
My wife is a Realtor (so am I, but don't work in the field) and I get calls weekly from her friends/ agents asking about HI comments, in general, and the infamous "double tap" is always on there.

Then, interestingly, my father-in-law bought a house last year. 3 days after he moves in, the lights stopped working in a portion of the first floor. Long story short, there was a double tap on a breaker with one 14 awg and one 12 awg (going to the doorbell transformer) under a BR breaker, and the 14 wire had heated and disintegrated, and lost contact with the breaker. After years of explaining the legal "double taps", this illegal one bit me in the ***
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I had an HI tell a real estate agent, after I had informed her that he was wrong, that he was going to go to his HI meeting and tell them all what an idiot I was. I told her that before he does that, ask him how long he's been the chief electrical inspector for the jurisdiction he works for. I never heard from him after that.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
I fielded a call from a lawyer some time ago who represented a PO'ed buyer.

The fact that I simply was the 'good soldier' ,and addressed the DT breakers, etc the HI wrote up was apparently an issue


I had walked by a number of blatant electrical issues to do so


Because, as the lawyer explained, the HI had zero certification , as well as zero contractual insurance of any sort, I was the 'LAST' qualified entity to view & work the property, and thereby liable


For any of you who question this, look up your contractors insurance 'errors and omissions' disclaimer.


Since then, I've a whole new 'tude

https://youtu.be/4XNr-BQgpd0

~RJ~
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Eaton CH breakers are, and I believe Homeline are.

I think that's true of Homeline full size breakers but not tandems or quads. Same of QO actually, not that they really have quads.

I believe you can tell the ones listed for two because they have two visible slots, or whatever you call 'em, on each side of the crew.
 
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