split type bus?

Status
Not open for further replies.

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
The individual breakers have nothing to do with it. The ampacity of the service conductors conductors are the telling sign. With 2 - 60 amp breakers I would guess it is 100 amp but it could be a 125 amp service.

The local electrical inspector said he thought it was a 100. (Over the phone). He said that if the range stayed on with the main off, it was a 100. If the main shut everything off, it was a 60.

House insurance is cheaper if you have a 100 amp service vs. a 60. I wanted to have some back up if they sent out an HI that only used the rating of the main as the size of the service.

Thanks!
 

New EE

Member
Location
California
Thanks for all this information. It is very helpful. This installation was done before my time so I haven't seen this type of setup. Below is a picture of the entire panel. There wasn't a wire size listed on the feeder coming from the meter to the panel so I wasn't able to tell the wire size off the bat. The reason why I am asking is that the home owner wants to replace the panel and get it up to code (provide arc fault breakers, etc). When upgrading the panel, can I use the old panel as a junction box and gut the bus, breakers, etc and then provide a new panel next to it by extending the existing feeder from the meter to the new panel main breaker?
The feeder wires are aluminum so I believe the new panel bus and lugs would have to be aluminum correct?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Thanks for all this information. It is very helpful. This installation was done before my time so I haven't seen this type of setup. Below is a picture of the entire panel. There wasn't a wire size listed on the feeder coming from the meter to the panel so I wasn't able to tell the wire size off the bat. The reason why I am asking is that the home owner wants to replace the panel and get it up to code (provide arc fault breakers, etc). When upgrading the panel, can I use the old panel as a junction box and gut the bus, breakers, etc and then provide a new panel next to it by extending the existing feeder from the meter to the new panel main breaker?
The feeder wires are aluminum so I believe the new panel bus and lugs would have to be aluminum correct?


I would rip it all out and start over.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
I have seen a few split buss panels in commercial work too, but they were not the service panel, they were set up with a contactor in the middle, half the panel was 24 hour branch circuits, with the bottom half switched by the contactor, most used a flat ASCO latching lighting contactor. All nice and neatly tucked into a standard panel enclosure.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Split buss panels came in many flavors, and configurations, many had dual feeds that could be fed from different meters for reduced rate metering, but most would always have a main protecting the receptacle and lighting portion of the panel while the non-coincidental side of the panel (240 volt loads) was main lug fed, 408.16 of the 2002 and before, required a panel supplying more then 10% of circuits requiring a neutral having a current of 30 amp or less to have a main breaker, but 240 volt loads did not require this so this is why we see split buss panels, In 2005 408.16 was removed.

If you look at the photo in the OP you can see the feeders from the top right breaker running down behind the top breakers left and right of the main lugs, the OP has even pointed them out as to feeding the rest of the panel.

In the last photo from the OP, I can see why the OP doesn't want to have to remove this panel, look at the meter socket at the top right, the service entrance conductors run right through this panel in the form of an SE cable in from the top and exits into the meter, this will be a flag if this service ever gets inspected, I would believe the whole service needs to be brought up to code, not to mention all the NM running through open KO's.:roll:
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Ok after looking more closely at the conductors going into and exiting the top right meter, I now see this was a split rate metering for the range, (strange I might add) I can see now the meter is fed from the range breaker, and the SE cable coming from the meter is most likely going to the range. The POCO would subtract the usage of this meter from the main service meter and charge a different rate on the difference, very rare set up, but I have seen it a couple times in the south.

The conductors on the main lugs look (when sizing to the other close by conductors) like they could be 1 awg, just because they look silver in color doesn't mean they are aluminum, as many cloth covered conductors are in fact tin plated copper, and will look very closely to aluminum, although I still change them just because the natural rubber insulation on them can become brittle and fail with the slightest movement.
 
Last edited:

hurk27

Senior Member
Do you have a 60" monitor or are you a decedent of an eagle?:) :grin:

No 26" LCD, but Explorer 8.0 allows you to enlarge any image just by holding down the CTRL and hitting the + key, or to reduce hit the - key, to move around hit the arrows, all while holding down the CTRL key.

Always had great eye sight, up to the last couple years, and now I have to use light magnifiers to read fine print, but my far away sight is still sharp. but not an Eagles eye by no means.;)

But I did get hooked on a game that helps to become more aware of whats in a photo, it is the game where you look at two photo's that are for the most part the same, but have little changes in one of them, and you have to find these changes, great game to play. can't remember the name right now.:roll:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top