Cad Operator trying to learn I/E disciplines from scratch

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daddy2k9

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I have a complicated problem on my hands that I would like some help with (well complicated to me lol). I have been a Cad Operator at an engineering firm for about 3yrs. I have spent the last 2 years doing Cad drawings exclusively in the I/E department. I had no prior knowledge of any specific disciplines when I got the job as I just knew Cad. I was kind of steered into I/E mostly due to workload and manpower needs. I have enjoyed the work for the most part, but have yet to really catch on to the whole E/I part of it. I am great at picking up marks etc, but I would like to move into a designer position somewhere down the road. At the rate I am going I feel like I will never get there. I am looking for some guidance as to how I can start comprehending and learning the details of I/E instead of just looking at things and feeling confused. Lets act as though I had no experience and I was starting fresh. What books should I read, what websites should I visit, etc. Give me anything you think will help me in this path. Thanks everyone.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
I have a complicated problem on my hands that I would like some help with (well complicated to me lol). I have been a Cad Operator at an engineering firm for about 3yrs. I have spent the last 2 years doing Cad drawings exclusively in the I/E department. I had no prior knowledge of any specific disciplines when I got the job as I just knew Cad. I was kind of steered into I/E mostly due to workload and manpower needs. I have enjoyed the work for the most part, but have yet to really catch on to the whole E/I part of it. I am great at picking up marks etc, but I would like to move into a designer position somewhere down the road. At the rate I am going I feel like I will never get there. I am looking for some guidance as to how I can start comprehending and learning the details of I/E instead of just looking at things and feeling confused. Lets act as though I had no experience and I was starting fresh. What books should I read, what websites should I visit, etc. Give me anything you think will help me in this path. Thanks everyone.

Welcome to the Forum!

Well, I guess you have to realize exactly what the function of your I/E is first! :)

You really have opened a very large request for yourself, you can look here which is a search engine result of just what I/E engineering is as a search engine see's it.

There have been some programming logic books stated here and more out there, if you search this forum I know you will find some listed. You can also research the on-line book stores on the subject matter, to.

I'd frankly research some of the college courses listed and see if you can find out what books are used as well as what the syllabus covers where classes are offered.
I'd also research your local community college system and see what they have to offer. Talk to an adviser, or try a cold call to the approicate instructor!

Most of the largest manufactures of the equipment also have training class and maybe even have some on-line stuff.

Sorry I don't have a one shot answer to your problem.
Good Luck!
 
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ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
Autocad

Autocad

Well i dont want to say it but the best way to learn is by doing thats from our cad people most of our cad folks learn it by doing it .

You can go to school you can read a book but they tell me its not enough when you get into design work .

Its the future of construction its a must to bid large projects if you dont have cad your out the door today .

Heres a example of our cad we design layouts and other trades can overlay there work heres a conduit riser installed and also the cad design .
100_1537.jpg
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This is a field install and cad design i install it but i also tell the cad folks were i want it . They then make it work with other trades by sitting at there desk in a nice office and can communicate with mechanical contractors/ fire sprinkler contractor / arch/ engineers / construction managers / owners reps all at the same time .

Time is saved you can design & change it in seconds and print it that second for the field electrician while everyone is online with auto cad .
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
It's great that this technically exists, this presentation being used on this large a scale by all EC's is a whole different story. I appriaciate seeing this type of work, but someone has to pay for the liberal aspects of what's needed to create this type of work. Most times it's not billable or put into a EC's budget in a project, what is there maybe will be "As Built's" and not all those are put to CAD by the EC's. I totally understand your company might well have and offer these services, it's not every EC's responsibility to have and maintain CAD files. I'm just saying, and would like to say!

Well i dont want to say it but the best way to learn is by doing thats from our cad people most of our cad folks learn it by doing it .

....

Its the future of construction its a must to bid large projects if you dont have cad your out the door today.
I thought that they already doing it, they just don't have the experience or a strong background of it, I frankly read into it that they are into P/I & D, or more low voltage work than worring about staging massive home runs.

This is a field install and cad design i install it but i also tell the cad folks were i want it . They then make it work with other trades by sitting at there desk in a nice office and can communicate with mechanical contractors/ fire sprinkler contractor / arch/ engineers / construction managers / owners reps all at the same time ..
This is a very rosey assumption, you and your company are in a very small percentage of using CAD to present this level of information.

As far a the meeting(s); 1) someone has to pay for this grand meeting(s), The bigger the job the bigger meetings respectfully. 2) Who runs the meeting might be the prevailer or controller of the information, as well as the direction of the meeting.
3) The importance of one desires or needs are not always clearly presented either solo or in these meetings and is not always of the same importance to another party, IE not everyone equal to the GC or to the client, and they will let the party know. A) only if it effects the schedule, or if it effects another trade on the job will a situation pop to the top as a point of descision.

Scheduling and peeking order will control the flow of information on the job.

Time is saved you can design & change it in seconds and print it that second for the field electrician while everyone is online with auto cad .

Only correct and accurate drawings at the time of an edit or print time allow for printing on demand; this one requirement of a drawing to be changed can be compounded with various discplines involved. In most cases not all discplines are at the same level of completion of any said project at any one time.

If one want to know what's in your way look at the HVAC drawings or if chemicals are in the building look for their plans or arrangements of runs! Look at HVAC and then look at structural second, then look at the usuage of an area that can also be controlled or design/arranged by the discipline that has it services in there.

Architect's work alone on large projects can be in three phase, CC's Creative Concept, DD's Design Dococuments; CD's Construction Documents. the DD's is when they let the other disiplines in.
The A/E firm is in control of the lay out of a job (maybe it's a E/A), they control the information to M/E, the Structural Engineer, the EE and the Landscaper and the Surveyor of a job. If it's a design build that puts the GC is first! They then hire who they like or ask for bids on the same services.

Granted most contractors will be working with CD's in the field, it's only when someone or a discpline want to make a hole or missed something that an RFI is created addressing the situation. A RFI can cause, small sketchs of whole sale sheet changes and revisions.

My friend in the EE world has often said he doesn't need to show any "how to" to distrubite or home run a circuit the scale of his job don't require it, and that it won't matter anyways, the EC's going to do it the way they want. Granted some small jobs might need some visual drawings, the presented ISO (if I can say that) is self describing! :) Good Stuff!
 
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ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
Well Cadpoint nicely put yes you are correct that most electrical contractors dont offer this we dont we get paid to do it and its our EC scope of work to provide it per contract .

Most of the time spent on coordination meetings are in the scope of the contract so we must attend theses each week no attendance your draw is now held up no money this month ! So we kinda do it .

Its has nothing to do with the dates of the project schedule its about critical clearances between mechanical and electrical and structural and civil underground and above ground work internal building conflicts major issues engineers create on there own time .

The meetings are held on site in the construction managers office we have no GC on our projects but then all week our cad folks work full time online with everyone else working out coordination .

The engineer firm works with all trades to correct these yes a RFI is sent via email for documentation and corrections approved then done on cad to show what is new and needed .

But we re design on projects electrical rooms feeders sizes and conductors conduits are changed locations of said rooms at times and yes were talking lots of feeders hundreds and hundreds conduits there not just hanging there major supports and path is planned .

Cad online its a paper less job .

When we re design at scale you can see it fit you can check all space within 1/100th of a inch this is important .

I guess we get to do 25 mil plus 40 mil plus electrical projects so we can use CAD to increase our work area make our projects on time and have fun using our computers and playing with conduits with different colors .

Ive spent years looking at prints & drawings at duct work/ mechanical / structural plumbing / civil site /elevations layouts planing for months its old news now and iam glad CAD is able to do it easy today .

I wish everyone used it things would be so simple .

Now some time ill tell you the downs of CAD on layout work thats another post which i think you may have not seen yet . When cad doesnt work if interested ill post the story .
 
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Timtrewyn

Member
Location
Fort Pierce, FL
Starting from Scratch

Starting from Scratch

I am going to assume you are posting on this Forum because you want to develop knowledge of electrical design. I recommend the National Electrical Code Handbook from NFPA be kept near at hand. It is expensive bought new, but even an old used hand me down from an engineer at your firm can be very helpful on most issues. If the language of the NEC text is alien, I'd get a used Halladay, Resnick, and Walker college physics text to get the basics, not only on electricity, but basic principles of science that are good to have in the back of your mind when designing. McGraw-Hill has a number of books on electrical design. I have the McPartlands' "Handbook of Practical Electrical Design", of which there have been several editions. The websites of electrical manufacturers are usually very helpful on specific applications. Get catalogs from Eaton, Square D, Siemens, General Electric, etc. Finally, get out in the field and take digital pictures, sketches and notes of how it's actually done.
 
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