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Thread: ground wire clockwise around ground screws

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEDRO ESCOVILLA View Post
    ... any connection that starts to undo itself while it's being tightned is worthless. like wrapping stranded wire around a ground screw. big nono. crimps( forks or rounds are needed here.)
    Hint: If you twist the stranded wire CCW before terminating under a screw, the strands tend to tighten as you terminate instead of splaying out from under the screw.

    Now I suppose you're going to come back with something that says twisting the wire CCW is altering the manufactures design and should be a code violation??

    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device. I doubt if movement of the conductor on a "terminal" was concidered in its testing or design.

    I am sure that you care about your work. I just believe that my way is better.
    I hope you don't fail inspections because of your opinion. Just because something is done in a manner you don't like, doesn't necessarily mean it's a code violation.

    As to the bolded part of your quote, I say "not necessarily". If you leave the wire long enough, you can fold it into the box in such a way that will prevent movement from affecting the ground screw termination when you install or remove the device.
    And in the case where you have multiple cables entering the box (requiring pigtails), wrapping one of the grounds around the ground screw and then taking it to the connection point results in having one less wire under the wirenut. That could be the difference between having to use a red wire nut or a blue wire nut. I don't like having to use a blue wire nut in an outlet box.
    The Man Prayer: I am a man ... I can change ... If I have to ... I guess.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevareno View Post
    Hint: If you twist the stranded wire CCW before terminating under a screw, the strands tend to tighten as you terminate instead of splaying out from under the screw.

    Now I suppose you're going to come back with something that says twisting the wire CCW is altering the manufactures design and should be a code violation??



    I hope you don't fail inspections because of your opinion. Just because something is done in a manner you don't like, doesn't necessarily mean it's a code violation.

    I don't like having to use a blue wire nut in an outlet box.
    It is not my opinion. Everyone knowns the correct direction under a screw.

    Which way do you put a stranded wire under a screw?

    So it is OK because you do not like blue wirenuts? LOL.
    Inspector Mike
    ESI

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    It is not my opinion. Everyone knowns the correct direction under a screw.

    There is no NEC section to back that up but 110.3(B) and any of those instructions are device specific, you can't show a levitton instruction and apply that to hubbell or P&S.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    There is no NEC section to back that up but 110.3(B) and any of those instructions are device specific, you can't show a levitton instruction and apply that to hubbell or P&S.
    P&S

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    Try 2/3 when 'looping'!

    AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

    Sorry it just is not allowed.
    Inspector Mike
    ESI

  5. #75
    janagyjr Guest

    Wire Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    There are occasional tasks that are easier to do if you are left handed - then the lefties make the righties look bad.


    Most left handed people I know are quite good at doing right handed things - as since we live in a right handed world they have to still use things designed for right handed people and they get used to it.

    Think what would happen if you are right handed and you lost your right hand. You would have to do everything left handed, the more you do it the better you will get at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    As I am a klutz and end up in a cast at least every 2 years, I can agree with this.

    Just broke two fingers last month.
    Doing some things in the trade rightie is not that difficult. I'm just finishing up chemo from my second time dealing with cancer (left arm, again; I'm left-hand dominant) and this time around its more of an adjustment (more was done to my arm than last time) but it is still rather easy because of all the rightie-specific stuff out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevareno View Post
    Hint: If you twist the stranded wire CCW before terminating under a screw, the strands tend to tighten as you terminate instead of splaying out from under the screw.

    Now I suppose you're going to come back with something that says twisting the wire CCW is altering the manufactures design and should be a code violation??



    I hope you don't fail inspections because of your opinion. Just because something is done in a manner you don't like, doesn't necessarily mean it's a code violation.

    As to the bolded part of your quote, I say "not necessarily". If you leave the wire long enough, you can fold it into the box in such a way that will prevent movement from affecting the ground screw termination when you install or remove the device.
    And in the case where you have multiple cables entering the box (requiring pigtails), wrapping one of the grounds around the ground screw and then taking it to the connection point results in having one less wire under the wirenut. That could be the difference between having to use a red wire nut or a blue wire nut. I don't like having to use a blue wire nut in an outlet box.
    I was taught by an electrician with 46 years experience and he says whether its tightening under the screw, twisting strands together, or twisting wires together for a splice, always go clockwise. Why? Because you tighten up the wire-nut clockwise and you tighten the screw clockwise. As quiet as I stay here (mostly because I'm not as active here as elsewhere but also because here I find little room for my limited experience to speak up), it seems silly to even consider any other direction to loop it (first termination I tried doing a CCW loop, it was solid #14 and just would not stay in place until I was done tightening the screw, swapped loop direction and it was easy to finish the termination). It seems to me that the consensus from manufacturers, the NEC (even if its not explicitly Code), and most other electricians of various experience says doing otherwise is silly (making things harder then it has to be), poor workmanship (doesn't produce a good enough connection), and just plain wrong. That statement is, of course, opinion (which are loke noses; everyone has one and they all smell).

    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    P&S

    Name:  P&S.JPG
Views: 372
Size:  15.4 KB

    Try 2/3 when 'looping'!

    AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

    Sorry it just is not allowed.
    I have trouble keeping it to just 2/3 around the post. I often get 3/4 or more. For this, I accept tips on best practices to help me improve.

    I was told to strip 1" as well, when properly looped and terminated under the screw none sticks past the device to cause a short while ensuring no insulation gets under the screw (ensuring a poor connection). Of course, eyeballing measurements is extremely difficult for me.

    Any comments on the cancer or chemo, please direct personally to my forum inbox or email me (if my email is visible, which it should be). I do not want to get off-topic. Thanks (:

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    P&S

    Name:  P&S.JPG
Views: 372
Size:  15.4 KB

    Try 2/3 when 'looping'!

    AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

    Sorry it just is not allowed.
    You missed the point, the point but that's fine.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    You missed the point, the point but that's fine.
    Probably. Would not be the first time nor the last. However at the end of the day I believe we could have a meeting of the minds!

    Thank God my verbal skills make up for the lack of my written ones.
    Inspector Mike
    ESI

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    It is not my opinion. Everyone knowns the correct direction under a screw.

    Which way do you put a stranded wire under a screw?

    So it is OK because you do not like blue wirenuts? LOL.
    I'm not disputing which direction you wrap a wire around a screw, that's common sense. CW for standard thread screws (and CCW for reverse thread screws ).

    I was disputing your assertion (bolded by me)
    If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device.
    I guess it's a matter of quality work vs. hack job. I learned long ago to do things in such a way that I never have to go back to fix something.
    And I have nothing against using blue wirenuts, but if I can make it so I don't have to, all the better.
    The Man Prayer: I am a man ... I can change ... If I have to ... I guess.

  9. #79
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    In a lot of ways this discussion about which way to wrap a wire around a screw is like talking about why not to put your shoes on backwards It's such a simple truth that you don't think about it and there's nothing really to discuss. Unscrewing a properly torqued screw by moving the wire is a new one for me - I'll have to see if it's possible.

    Looping on the other hand, is completely up for discussion. It doesn't violate any restriction of multiple conductors, because you only have a single conductor under the screw. You can certainly wrap 2/3 of the way around the screw and unless the screw is really, really huge, you'd never need 1" of bare copper to achieve that. Properly torqued, it shouldn't push out any more than a hooked wire end would. Given a choice of what looks more professional, four switches ganged together with loops versus each one wire nutted to a hot (like you have to do with some Lutron dimmers), I'll go with looped any day. It makes changing out a switch much easier later, too, since you don't have to take out all the switches in front of the wirenut holding the hots together.

    Granted, maybe my loops look different than some others - I leave at least 6" from the front of the box to the first loop and at least 6"-7" in between loops so that any switch has enough wire to remove it without removing the others.
    Peter A.

  10. #80
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    Hmm. I did not know that terminals were approved for looping?

    250.120 Equipment Grounding Conductor Installation.

    (A) Raceway, Cable Trays, Cable Armor, Cablebus, or
    Cable Sheaths. Where it consists of a raceway, cable tray,
    cable armor, cablebus framework, or cable sheath or where
    it is a wire within a raceway or cable, it shall be installed in
    accordance with the applicable provisions in this Code using
    fittings for joints and terminations approved for use
    with the type raceway or cable used. All connections,
    joints, and fittings shall be made tight using suitable tools.

    I'm still trying to understand why it is called a terminal if a wire is not terminating there?
    Inspector Mike
    ESI

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