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Thread: ground wire clockwise around ground screws

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post


    I'm still trying to understand why it is called a terminal if a wire is not terminating there?
    This definition from Dictionary.com


    the mechanical device by means of which an electric connection to an apparatus is established.
    It's like parking in the driveway and driving on the parkway, if you think about it....
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    Hmm.
    I'm still trying to understand why it is called a terminal if a wire is not terminating there?
    Maybe its called a terminal because the device leads terminate on the wire?

  3. #83
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    If buses could only stop at the bus terminal, we'd soon be out of buses
    Peter A.

  4. #84
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    ter·mi·nal (tûrm-nl)
    adj.
    1. Of, at, relating to, or forming a limit, boundary, extremity, or end.
    2. Botany Growing or appearing at the end of a stem, branch, stalk, or similar part.
    3. Of, at, relating to, or being the end of a section or series; final. See Synonyms at last1.
    4. Relating to or occurring in a term or each term: terminal inventories.
    5. Causing, ending in, or approaching death; fatal: terminal cancer; a terminal patient.
    n.
    1. A point or part that forms the end.
    2. An ornamental figure or object placed at the end of a larger structure; a finial.
    3. Electricity
    a. A position in a circuit or device at which a connection is normally established or broken.
    b. A passive conductor at such a position used to facilitate the connection.
    4.
    a. Either end of a railroad or other transportation line; a terminus.
    b. A station at the end of a transportation line or at a major junction on a transportation line.
    c. A town at the end of a transportation line.
    5. Computer Science A device, often equipped with a keyboard and a video display, through which data or information can be entered or displayed.
    Inspector Mike
    ESI

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    ter·mi·nal (tûrm-nl)
    adj.
    1. Of, at, relating to, or forming a limit, boundary, extremity, or end.
    2. Botany Growing or appearing at the end of a stem, branch, stalk, or similar part.
    3. Of, at, relating to, or being the end of a section or series; final. See Synonyms at last1.
    4. Relating to or occurring in a term or each term: terminal inventories.
    5. Causing, ending in, or approaching death; fatal: terminal cancer; a terminal patient.
    n.
    1. A point or part that forms the end.
    2. An ornamental figure or object placed at the end of a larger structure; a finial.
    3. Electricity
    a. A position in a circuit or device at which a connection is normally established or broken.
    b. A passive conductor at such a position used to facilitate the connection.
    4.
    a. Either end of a railroad or other transportation line; a terminus.
    b. A station at the end of a transportation line or at a major junction on a transportation line.
    c. A town at the end of a transportation line.
    5. Computer Science A device, often equipped with a keyboard and a video display, through which data or information can be entered or displayed.
    Ok, that being said, here's what a little research has turned up:

    - Neither Cerrowire, Nexans or Southwire (all available locally) have any instructions regarding the installation or termination of their NM-B products on their websites.

    - Neither Ideal, Gardner-Bender or NSI industries has any instructions for the proper use of their 10-32 ground screws (some are UL listed, though).

    - The instructions for the most common dimmer in most houses, a Lutron AY600P, includes an illustration and instructions for attaching a loop of wire to the screw terminal when it exists:

    Attachment 7197

    (pdf available here with illustration in step 3)

    While I understand your argument and your concern for safety as an inspector, I can find no indication other than omittance of the technique in some instruction sheets that it would be forbidden. Omittance is not a clear argument against loops.
    Peter A.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetrosA View Post
    Ok, that being said, here's what a little research has turned up:

    - Neither Cerrowire, Nexans or Southwire (all available locally) have any instructions regarding the installation or termination of their NM-B products on their websites.

    - Neither Ideal, Gardner-Bender or NSI industries has any instructions for the proper use of their 10-32 ground screws (some are UL listed, though).

    - The instructions for the most common dimmer in most houses, a Lutron AY600P, includes an illustration and instructions for attaching a loop of wire to the screw terminal when it exists:

    Attachment 7197

    (pdf available here with illustration in step 3)

    While I understand your argument and your concern for safety as an inspector, I can find no indication other than omittance of the technique in some instruction sheets that it would be forbidden. Omittance is not a clear argument against loops.
    In your example note which side the wire is on under the screw! So since they omitted wrapping around the screw two, three or more times is OK?

    The loop is for existing installations. They know that it is easier to show the homeowner how to 'fix' this problem than to have them cut the wire and properly install it!

    I guess they other manufactures have no instructions because they thought people had common sense as to how to terminate a wire.

    The terminal is made for TERMINATING a wire not for a feed through.
    Inspector Mike
    ESI

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    ter·mi·nal (tûrm-nl)
    adj.
    1. Of, at, relating to, or forming a limit, boundary, extremity, or end.
    2. Botany Growing or appearing at the end of a stem, branch, stalk, or similar part.
    3. Of, at, relating to, or being the end of a section or series; final. See Synonyms at last1.
    4. Relating to or occurring in a term or each term: terminal inventories.
    5. Causing, ending in, or approaching death; fatal: terminal cancer; a terminal patient.
    n.
    1. A point or part that forms the end.
    2. An ornamental figure or object placed at the end of a larger structure; a finial.
    3. Electricity
    a. A position in a circuit or device at which a connection is normally established or broken.
    b. A passive conductor at such a position used to facilitate the connection.
    4.
    a. Either end of a railroad or other transportation line; a terminus.
    b. A station at the end of a transportation line or at a major junction on a transportation line.
    c. A town at the end of a transportation line.
    5. Computer Science A device, often equipped with a keyboard and a video display, through which data or information can be entered or displayed.
    A train, bus, airplane terminals are the end of the line? Just like an electrical junction device they are at the end of a particular segment but overall it continues from one terminal to the next. Unlike some of the transportation methods electricity can not come to the end of a path and then back up, it must travel in a circuit (loop).

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    P&S

    Attachment 7176

    Try 2/3 when 'looping'!

    AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

    Sorry it just is not allowed.
    It could be done, besides, that's specifically for 'side wire' and I don't think it applies to the grounding terminal. Which, BTW is still a terminal no matter how it is wired.
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxofaltrds View Post
    ter·mi·nal (tûrm-nl)
    adj.
    1. Of, at, relating to, or forming a limit, boundary, extremity, or end.
    2. Botany Growing or appearing at the end of a stem, branch, stalk, or similar part.
    3. Of, at, relating to, or being the end of a section or series; final. See Synonyms at last1.
    4. Relating to or occurring in a term or each term: terminal inventories.
    5. Causing, ending in, or approaching death; fatal: terminal cancer; a terminal patient.
    n.
    1. A point or part that forms the end.
    2. An ornamental figure or object placed at the end of a larger structure; a finial.
    3. Electricity
    a. A position in a circuit or device at which a connection is normally established or broken.
    b. A passive conductor at such a position used to facilitate the connection.
    4.
    a. Either end of a railroad or other transportation line; a terminus.
    b. A station at the end of a transportation line or at a major junction on a transportation line.
    c. A town at the end of a transportation line.
    5. Computer Science A device, often equipped with a keyboard and a video display, through which data or information can be entered or displayed.
    All we are concerned with is 3a. All that is needed is a place to connect or disconnect a wire or wires in order to be called a terminal. I see nothing indicating that the definintion is conditional upon the way the connection is going to be made.
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  10. #90
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    FWIW, I don't use the method because I don't like it. I don't, however, see it being against the NEC and know that inspectors don't gig people for doing it.

    I don't like the method because most of the loops I have seen result in a very misaligned and sometimes loose connection. If I was an inspector I would not try to gig the loops just on the NEC. The side posts, if not used as directed may be an easy one to gig, but I would be looking very closely at the integrity of the connections. If you find more than one loose, that would be cause to force a change and easy to validate.
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

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