Drywall And Electrical Boxes

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blingbling4r

Member
Location
Seattle, WA
We are doing a 118 unit wood framed residential project. We are having issues with the dry wall contractor cutting in the outlets for our drywall and contorting our plastic boxes in the process. Furthermore when they go back and mud they are filling up our boxes.

I know this happens on a job but HOW MUCH do you tolerate before backcharging? Also are there any code restrictions (building/electrical/fire/etc) for mud/paint filling up the box and coating wires? Also I heard a rumor there may be a code issue if the drywaller is sticking his router inside our box and then cutting to the edge then finally the box perimeter. Anything you guys have heard?
 

jbelectric777

Senior Member
Location
NJ/PA
if they router and damage the pvc box to the point where you cant get it flush or they damage wires bring it the inspectors attention, tell em to red tag the job and why then tell the GC its a back charge and why.......if they are covering the boxes then just make it appear as if you cant find it so when the rest of the circuit doesnt work tell the GC you know an outlets covered up simply by the 6 and 12 foot apart rules, let them find it or backcharge if you have to do it.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I would also talk with the GC but if I am on the job when they are there I will let them know it is going to cost them money if it continually happens.
 

jbelectric777

Senior Member
Location
NJ/PA
Dennis right with the diplomatic approach first, I jumped to revenge too fast. I have a reason: We were doing a hospital and pipes all over the ceiling so some ___ hole decided to sawzall about 5 3/4 emt conduits with saddles right in the center of the bend then stuff plaster in the end ! the way he cut it i couldnt put a coupling on and they all hadda be redone. My apologies Dennis:)
 

kwb

Member
Location
Salt Lake City
This has happened to me quite a few times.

Mostly, when the GC hires some hack drywaller from noname state. I'd mention it gently to the GC at first. Then take it further if this doesn't improve immediately. No sense in causing an on-the-job-site domestic disturbance if you can handle it through the GC.

I wish I could regurgitate some magic code violation. There must be one the inspector could help you out with.
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
Dennis right with the diplomatic approach first, I jumped to revenge too fast. I have a reason: We were doing a hospital and pipes all over the ceiling so some ___ hole decided to sawzall about 5 3/4 emt conduits with saddles right in the center of the bend then stuff plaster in the end ! the way he cut it i couldnt put a coupling on and they all hadda be redone. My apologies Dennis:)

Pardon me for saying this but, it sounds like you or you crew ticked somebody off........
Had a foreman one time that thought he could treat the brick masons as badly as he treated us. Needless to say a lot of pipe was full of mortar........
 
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Strife

Senior Member
Ha ha,
I had a job like this where I could swear the drywall guy was using my boxes to clean up his trowel.
Annoying as hell

We are doing a 118 unit wood framed residential project. We are having issues with the dry wall contractor cutting in the outlets for our drywall and contorting our plastic boxes in the process. Furthermore when they go back and mud they are filling up our boxes.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Dennis right with the diplomatic approach first, I jumped to revenge too fast. I have a reason: We were doing a hospital and pipes all over the ceiling so some ___ hole decided to sawzall about 5 3/4 emt conduits with saddles right in the center of the bend then stuff plaster in the end ! the way he cut it i couldnt put a coupling on and they all hadda be redone. My apologies Dennis:)

I HATE drywallers.

The last time I had to deal with them I told the head drywaller in charge that if they so much as blemished one of my boxes I would do great bodily harm to him and his sidekick, destroy all their work, flatten their tires, sell their tools and convince the owner (who owned the bar next door) to revoke their tabs as we were back-charging him at electrician's scale to fix their screw ups.

That worked FAR better than any diplomacy I have ever tried.

:roll:
 

rodneee

Senior Member
Pardon me for saying this but, it sounds like you or you crew pizzed somebody off........
Had a foreman one time that thought he could treat the brick masons as badly as he treated us. Needless to say a lot of pipe was full of mortar........



so true...in new home construction when EC's and drywallers do battle, the EC usually ends up bearing more of the pain...while it did not work for neville chamberlain in 1938; appeasement is the only solution for dealing with drywallers with attitude...
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
so true...in new home construction when EC's and drywallers do battle, the EC usually ends up bearing more of the pain...while it did not work for neville chamberlain in 1938; appeasement is the only solution for dealing with drywallers with attitude...

I disagree.

Drywallers need electricity. Electrician's don't need drywall.

It's all in how you play it.

:cool:
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
One of the better GC's would cover the outlet box with red duct tape

after rough inspection. Or use flourscent orange spray paint. The right attitude

by all parties involved goes a long ways.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
One of the better GC's would cover the outlet box with red duct tape

after rough inspection. Or use flourscent orange spray paint. The right attitude

by all parties involved goes a long ways.

You cold spray them with every florescent color in the rainbow and they would still use a hammer to pound a pattern on the back of a piece of drywall with your boxes as a die to use as a template for cutting. Even so they will invariably manage to bury at least one box per structure because they left out the part about cutting the hole.

I remember how great it was to have digital cameras so I could take pics of my boxes without having to pay for film and processing.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
I was called by the GC wanting to know why there was no switch's or outlets in the living room as the dry waller stated if there were box's installed they would have cut them out, well I just grabbed the dry wallers hammer out of the pouch he was wearing, and he yelled "what are you doing", while I was knocking out the drywall where I knew a 3 gang switch was, I just stated to him "installing the box that isn't there now go find the others" the GC who also own the houses and a large real estate company just laughed and then let the dry waller have it, told him to find the box's and then get his tools and people off his job.
 

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Just had one like this a week ago, sorta.

Drywallers removed the wires from a couple of boxes so they could walk throught the wall because they didn't want to walk around the house with their drywall.

Got my holesaw out a proceeded to rewire the wall they went through. Showed the HO the wires they had jacked up. He said f*** 'em, they should have known better. Also un-covered three boxes they covered up. Guy there mudding says, "that's a lot of holes!" I told him he hurt my wires. Not my fault.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
We are doing a 118 unit wood framed residential project. We are having issues with the dry wall contractor cutting in the outlets for our drywall and contorting our plastic boxes in the process. Furthermore when they go back and mud they are filling up our boxes.

I know this happens on a job but HOW MUCH do you tolerate before backcharging? Also are there any code restrictions (building/electrical/fire/etc) for mud/paint filling up the box and coating wires? Also I heard a rumor there may be a code issue if the drywaller is sticking his router inside our box and then cutting to the edge then finally the box perimeter. Anything you guys have heard?

i like really deep j boxes, so i can fold stuff way back so they don't eat wires with the rotozip.

i used to tape my boxes up to keep them clean before the days of rotozip.
that doesn't work anymore. :-(

it is typical for tapers to leave mud in boxes.

i go make friends with the drywall foreman immediately.
usually, if i treat him professionally. he will pretend that he knows how
to act professionally. i've seldom had problems.

boxes get missed. once in a while. if its a problem, i go ask the drywall
foreman to please find them for me, unless he wants me to do it...

i have only had one guy tell me once to find my own damn boxes.

i start at eye level, in the corner of the wall, and break a hole on each
side of each stud, till i find the wire, then i follow it down to the box.

this method works on stucco as well, when the plastering crew fills
up the boxes, and doesn't clean them out.

i've done one stucco, and one drywall locate, in 30 years, so it's
not a biggie.

as for cutting wires and such? i've never feuded with drywallers,
so my experience is limited there, but vandalism is not covered by
warranty.

most working relationships i have in the field are collaboritive.

'sides, one of my oldest friends is a drywall foreman, and taught
me how to fix the tapers if they don't play nice.... pour a little
bit of ................. in the tapers mud box, and the mud will never
dry.
 

sameguy

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Master Elec./JW retired
Temp power = some times it works and some times it dont, this is one of the dont times! Oh by the way stop f****** up my stuff and I'll see what I can do to get the power back on for you; first I have to go to the supply house for some stuff be right back!
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I've generally had only short-lived issues with drywallers ... or any other trades, for that matter. The exceptions were situations where the other guy felt I was doing work that either he, or his buddy, should have been doing.

I suppose it comes down to communication and respect. Far too often I walk onto a tense jobsite- everyone wary, since they feel thay've encountered too many Primma-Donna sparkies. Their attitudes change once they accept that I respect them, and their craft.

I really do respect the drywallers. Whatever their personal foibles, theirs is a tough job. Plus, there is a real skill involved- look at one of my patches, and you'll see why I respect them!

To be fair, though, I must confess that the effects of their work have influenced the way I do mine. For the resi guys and their plastic boxes, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe those snap-on covers help.
 

muskrat

Member
Location
St. Louis, MO
The big gobs of mud usually comes out pretty easy if it hasn't set up too much. Look on the bright side...the barbarians could have cut the holes for your boxes 1/4" too big so your devices float and the plates don't cover and then said "can't you just use those bigger plates?" Be sure and tuck your wires WAY back in the box 'cause the first thing Conan does is take the depth gauge off his roto-zip and free hand his cut. Best to try politics befor you go to higher-ups. "Buy you a 12'er if you don't cut or cover anything". "Can I get you more power anywhere?" Cheap insurance.;)
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
True story

True story

True story.

Doing a re-mod. Owner didn't want to pay me to do anything but electrical work. If I needed a hole in a wall cut I was supposed to tell the drywallers where and let them do it.

I needed a section opened so I could get some Romex around the top of a window. I took a marker, drew out the area I needed cut out (not much more than a square foot) and in bold letters wrote 'Remove' inside the area I outlined. This was at the end of the day. On the way out I told head drywall dude that I had marked out a spot I needed taken out in the wall. He said he would have it done when we came back at 10 the next morning.

When I came back I couldn't believe my eyes. The plaster and lath on the entire wall had been removed with the exception of the square foot I had marked out. There, in the middle of a totally stripped wall was the area I wanted removed, still intact, 'Remove' and all.

The guy that did it was still there, but had managed about a 40 and a half of beer by the time we arrived. I asked him if he thought he was being funny. He seriously had no idea what I was talking about. I took my marker and added to 'Remove' 'what part of (Remove) don't you (expletive starting with f) understand?'

I went back and got drywall dude. I pointed at the spot I wanted removed and told him he had about 5 minutes to do it.

Drywall dude finally did it, it was about a minute long job. He then went to my helper and said something to the effect that I was being 'a little sarcastic'. My helper told him he was lucky that's all I did. I told my helper that drywall dude was lucky I didn't throw his scrawny little butt right out the door, or window, whichever was closer.

A meeting with the owner fixed things. Once I told him I was through being a drywaller's foreman and I planned on doing my own demos and charging him for it the drywall dudes were at my beck and call. I even had them sweeping our area and cleaning for us.

Ain't I a scoundrel?

:roll:
 
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