Behind the dishwasher

Learn the NEC with Mike Holt now!

Behind the dishwasher

  • readily accessable

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    38
Status
Not open for further replies.

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I have never done it that way simply because it defeats the purpose, IMO. How can you unplug the unit to work on it if it is behind the unit. even at floor level it would be difficult.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
By definition, accessible. But I agree with Dennis from a practical standpoint it makes no sense if it's being used a disconnect.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Another regular topic- the 'dishwasher debate.'

I suppose it's a credit to the manufacturers that no one seems to consider it very important to be able to easily remove, unplug, and "un-plumb" a dishwasher (remember, they need both a water line and a drain line).

I can't deny that a cord & plug - especially with the code restriction on length - isn't a very practical method. The same issue also applies to ranges, ovens, dryers, and cabinet-mounted microwaves.

Personally, I like the idea of a cord that comes unplugged if you pull the dishwasher out too far for cleaning- but that's another discussion entirely.

You can also be sure that the issue gets even more interesting with the 'drawer-type' dishwashers - where cord & plug might be the only way to connect them. I haven't installed any, so I'm just guessing.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
Not accessible according to the definition:

"Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other
effective means"

The equipment (device/receptacle) is guarded by other effective means (dishwasher).
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Not accessible according to the definition:

"Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other
effective means"

The equipment (device/receptacle) is guarded by other effective means (dishwasher).

I guess if you can call the location guarded by the dishwasher then you are correct.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
IMO if the recptacle is litterally behind the dishwasher it is not accptable to use it as the required disconnecting means.

422.33 Disconnection of Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances.

(A) Separable Connector or an Attachment Plug and
Receptacle. For cord-and-plug-connected appliances, an
accessible
separable connector or an accessible plug and
receptacle shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting
means. Where the separable connector or plug and receptacle
are not accessible, cord-and-plug-connected appliances
shall be provided with disconnecting means in accordance
with 422.31.


(B) Connection at the Rear Base of a Range. For cordand-
plug-connected household electric ranges, an attachment
plug and receptacle connection at the rear base of a
range, if it is accessible from the front by removal of a
drawer, shall be considered as meeting the intent of
422.33(A).

IMO the fact the CMP felt the need to put the 'drawer section' for ranges shows that a receptacle behind an appliance is not accessible per definition.
 

Hendrix

Senior Member
Location
New England
IMO if the recptacle is litterally behind the dishwasher it is not accptable to use it as the required disconnecting means.



IMO the fact the CMP felt the need to put the 'drawer section' for ranges shows that a receptacle behind an appliance is not accessible per definition.
A dishwasher has a panel that can be removed, somewhat like a drawer, and one can access the cord and receptacle. I have done this many times.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
A dishwasher has a panel that can be removed, somewhat like a drawer, and one can access the cord and receptacle. I have done this many times.

Yes it does, but that dishwasher has no code section that says the removable panel qualifies as the range drawer does.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
A dishwasher has a panel that can be removed, somewhat like a drawer, and one can access the cord and receptacle. I have done this many times.
The drawer in the range, when removed, leaves a cavity in the bottom of the range that is un-encumbered by relays, motor, valves, hoses, wiring, etc. . . . basically an open cavity to the wall behind the range, and the NEC says the cord and plug back there are accessible.

As written, the poll says anywhere on the wall behind the dishwasher - so, IMO, the fixed dishwasher is an effective means of guarding access, that is, "anywhere" on the wall behind the dishwasher is not accessible.

For the receptacle mounted within the 4" - 6" high "open" back of the mechanical space behind toe kick cover (that is screw secured) of a dishwasher, I side with Iwire's reference to 422.33(B), that the receptacle is accessible if an arm can reach through the empty space between the other parts of the dishwasher.

In the real world wiring of new construction, that means the rough in installer has to know the lay of the empty space under the dishwasher, and whether such empty space of the specific dishwasher to be installed is practical to stick an arm through to be able to reach the cord cap.

Possible, but not probable.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Yes it does, but that dishwasher has no code section that says the removable panel qualifies as the range drawer does.
But, as a permissive Code, the Code is silent about the dishwasher in the negative, as well.

So, 422.33(B) saying that a range cord and plug, an assembly requiring more force to disconnect than a 15 or 20 A straight blade cord and plug, is accessible, becomes apt metaphor, IMO, for the CMP intent for accessibility around and within appliances.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
But, as a permissive Code, the Code is silent about the dishwasher in the negative, as well.


Yes ........ and we all know it is a perfect document. (Consider how 'parallel conductors under 1/0 had been prohibited up until the 2011 NEC)


Regardless, IMO a receptacle behind a fastened in appliance is not accessible by definition and an inspector can certainly feel the same way based on the current wording of the code.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Consider how 'parallel conductors under 1/0 had been prohibited up until the 2011 NEC
I submit that the CMP's need to change, and accomplished 2011 NEC change, to 310.4 by adding 310.4(H), and related alterations, is prima facie evidence that paralleling conductors smaller than 1/0 wasn't prohibited.
2011 NEC 310.4(H)

. . . only in sizes 1/0 AWG and larger . . .
This just supports my point, IMO, about a cord and plug that an arm can reach through a dishwasher toe kick is accessible.
 
Last edited:

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
This just supports my point, IMO, about a cord and plug that an arm can reach through a dishwasher toe kick is accessible.

The last dishwasher I installed you couldn't fit your fingers under the unit so forget about your arm. I had to use a 1/8" snake just to get the cord in. :roll:
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
The last dishwasher I installed you couldn't fit your fingers under the unit so forget about your arm. I had to use a 1/8" snake just to get the cord in. :roll:
:grin:

Heh! I've wired those units as well, and agree with you that there is no arm thin enough to reach the wall behind. Other appliances may be more open.

As I said:
Possible, but not probable.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Some higher end dishwasher come with a cord from the factory and the instruction state to mount the receptacle in the adjacent cabinet. Usually this space is the kitchen sink cabinet so it is quite simple to install a jb there for a recep. or install a switch in that same JB. I usually leave a tail to the dw so I can go either way with it.

In the past there was one of those unwritten rules where we would float a switch box under the dw so the access to the disconnect was accessible. So many of the dw's today have no room under them as others have mentioned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top