mwb for kitchen /arc faul

[liquidtite]

I know you cant share a nuetral when using arc fault ocps ,and if the circuit is gfci then you dont need to use arcfault . so if your runing a mwbc using the black leg for the countertop witch is gfi and the red leg for the dishwasher and stove does the stove and dw have to be gfi as well?

[Dennis Alwon]

The stove and dishwasher do not need to be gfci. Just install a gfci receptacle at the junction and connect the neutral for the dw, or whatever, on the line side. Code requires countertop recep. to be gfci.

[don_resqcapt19]

The AFCI rule doesn't say you don't need it if the circuit has GFCI protection, it says you don't need AFCI protection for circuits that serve the kitchen, no matter what their function is. Actually the rule says that in a negative manner, it specifies the rooms where the branch circuits that serve those rooms must have AFCI protection and kitchens and bathrooms are not on that list.

[jumper]

The AFCI rule doesn't say you don't need it if the circuit has GFCI protection, it says you don't need AFCI protection for circuits that serve the kitchen, no matter what their function is. Actually the rule says that in a negative manner, it specifies the rooms where the branch circuits that serve those rooms must have AFCI protection and kitchens and bathrooms are not on that list.

To add to what Don said, there are times where AFCI and GFCI protection are both required, ie: a receptacle for a bar sink in a dining room.

[renosteinke]

I'm sorry, Liquitite, but you're understanding of code requirements is overly simple, and wrong.

Code specifies that some circuits be AFCI protected. Code specifies that some outlets be GFCI protected.

There are some outlets that are not mentioned in either set of requirements, or are excluded from either requirement. Examples of these are the outlets for most major kitchen appliances, and outlets in stairwells.

The dining room is at the opposite extreme- it must meet two sets of requirements: it must be served by a 20-amp 'small appliance' circuit (which often results in GFCI protection), and it must be AFCI protected.

Without available AFCI devices, and the lack of 2-pole AFCI breakers (I think C-H has the only one), you can pretty much forget about using a multi-wire branch circuit.

To go off on a little tangent regarding MWBC's: I recently bought a roll of 12/3, and noticed a few changes. First of all, this stuff was flat, rather than round. I thought for a moment I had the wrong wire. Then, after stripping the cover back, I noticed that the neutral was gray in color.

I have never seen Romex with a gray neutral before. Keeping in mind the new NEC restrictions on MWBC's in houses, I suspect this is an attempt to 'identify' the neutral for the mwbc.

Naturally, this brings up some lovely issues regarding our attchment staples. Even where listed for use with 12/3, we don't know if that listing is for flat cable, round cable, or both. Since the listing usually allows you to fasten two (flat) 12/2's or one (I assume round) 12/3 under a staple .... does that suggest I can stack two 12/3's under a staple?

I just might start a thread on this ....

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm sorry, Liquitite, but you're understanding of code requirements is overly simple, and wrong.

It may be wrong but it is a generalized statement that is used too often but hold some truth. That, IMO, is the problem with the statement. It is close to the truth but it isn't and everyone is beginning to use that statement as gospel. When I read it I knew it wasn't true but I took it as a generalized rule that many people use.