GE breakers in Siemens panels?

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goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Fitting in the panel is one thing. You'll have to contact GE and find out if their breakers (specifically the type you plan to install) are cross listed with the Siemen's panel. If they are, have them send you a data sheet in case you are questioned.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
There will be a label on the panel that states what breakers are permitted to be installed in the panel. GE breakers will not be mentioned on this label.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
as a general rule brands are not interchangeable. Siemens/ murray are not necessarily interchangeable as per the label on the panel. There are Classified breakers from sources like T&B and Conneticut electric. These however are not going to be on the label and the panel manufacture may have issue with them.
 

HoosierSparky

Senior Plans Examiner, MEP
Location
Scottsdale AZ
Occupation
Senior Plans Examiner
As a former Bldg Inpector and now Plans Examiner, I have failed installations for having breakers installed that were not listed by the panel manufacturer for use in that particular panel. The key component is "listed by the panel manufacturer".

I have seen some GE, Square D Homeline, Bryant, Siemens and Eaton(Cutler-Hammer) breakers all in one panel. I think it was either a bunch of different homeowners over time doing this or "Fly-by-Night Electric".
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
As a former Bldg Inpector and now Plans Examiner, I have failed installations for having breakers installed that were not listed by the panel manufacturer for use in that particular panel. The key component is "listed by the panel manufacturer".

I have seen some GE, Square D Homeline, Bryant, Siemens and Eaton(Cutler-Hammer) breakers all in one panel. I think it was either a bunch of different homeowners over time doing this or "Fly-by-Night Electric".

You can have all those breakers installed in meter-main panels manufactured by Milbank or Midwest, or at least most of them, they are listed on the label in the panel.
 

norcal

Senior Member
Just use the same manufacturer breakers as the panel, it makes life a lot easier then dealing w/ paperwork for UL "Classified" breakers, years ago if a ITE (Siemens) breaker fit that is what it got, I no longer have the opinion that such actions are acceptable, thanks to the good folks here & other forums.
 

Steviechia2

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I never( in my 26 years of wiring) have seen a problem with breakers from different manufacturer give a problem in another panel. I know it's code and I follow the rule but this is a legal issue with the manufacturers.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I never( in my 26 years of wiring) have seen a problem with breakers from different manufacturer give a problem in another panel. I know it's code and I follow the rule but this is a legal issue with the manufacturers.

And it likely is not a problem most of the time. If you were manufacturing a panel would you have it tested and listed with your competitors breakers in it or would you want to sell your own breakers to put into your panels? No legal issue involved they simply are not having their panels listed for use with any other breakers.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I never( in my 26 years of wiring) have seen a problem with breakers from different manufacturer give a problem in another panel. I know it's code and I follow the rule but this is a legal issue with the manufacturers.

I am sorry to say it is not just a legal issue it could result in your license for not adhering to it.

The whole issue of listing and classified is that the breakers are tested and approved for a use. That's it. When we as electricians become a testing lab and certify compliance with standards then we can put those breakers in.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am sorry to say it is not just a legal issue it could result in your license for not adhering to it.

The whole issue of listing and classified is that the breakers are tested and approved for a use. That's it. When we as electricians become a testing lab and certify compliance with standards then we can put those breakers in.

I don't know that ones license is threatened very much for installing a breaker in a panel that it was not listed for. If it is asked to be corrected by an inspector then you are subject to whatever rules the AHJ has for corrections. If it is not inspected for whatever reason the risk of property damage or injury because of it is probably not that high. If property damage or injury would happen and this breaker is determined the cause and they prove you installed the breaker then you have an insurance claim to be filing. If that breaker last 10 years before an incident happens it is more likely to be unknown who installed it.

All that said you should still install the proper breaker, if anything it just looks more professional to do so.
 

dana1028

Senior Member
As a former Bldg Inpector and now Plans Examiner, I have failed installations for having breakers installed that were not listed by the panel manufacturer for use in that particular panel. The key component is "listed by the panel manufacturer".

I personally think you over stepped your authority. As others have said, the mfr. does not 'list' anything, they do pay a NRTL to test and list their equipment and components...and of course they are not going to pay to list their competitors components.

UL is a NRTL that does list and 'certify' breakers for use in others equipment.

As an inspector, and Electrical Plans Examiner, I just ask the electrician to provide me with the documentation showing the breaker in question is listed/certified to be used in the panel being inspected. Only when the electrician cannot provide me with the necessary documentation do I fail the installation. [Actually I don't fail the installation, I write a correction notice requiring him to install a certified/listed component].

On these inspections I give them a 'pass with conditions' - no final until the conditions have been met. I don't think it is right to fail a job out of hand just because I don't have all the information...the electrician should be given an opportunity to verify he is right.
 

SparkBox

Member
Breakers

Breakers

I beleive if you install un-listed breakers you void the UL listing.
In the event of a fire, the insurance company may not cover the damage if they discover the outlaw breakers.
Sometimes Siemens is overpriced but using the right brand will cost you less in the future..
 

frankft2000

Senior Member
Location
Maine
This is a tricky one. Cutler Hammer makes classified breakers which say their breakers can go in GE, Siemans, Homeline, etc panels, BUT the panels only list their own breakers as being suitable. So a electrician can show that the classified breaker is listed for a particular panel, but the same panel does not have a listing for the Cutler Hammer breaker.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
This is a tricky one. Cutler Hammer makes classified breakers which say their breakers can go in GE, Siemans, Homeline, etc panels, BUT the panels only list their own breakers as being suitable. So a electrician can show that the classified breaker is listed for a particular panel, but the same panel does not have a listing for the Cutler Hammer breaker.

I don't think it is tricky at all. What the problem is that most people misunderstand how listing works. The manufacturers do not list anything. UL or some other NRTL does. The NRTL gets to say what components can be used together, no matter what the manufacturer might say.

Think about it like this. Suppose a conduit manufacturer said their product was only supposed to be used with fittings they made? Would anyone accept that idea? Of course not.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I never( in my 26 years of wiring) have seen a problem with breakers from different manufacturer give a problem in another panel. I know it's code and I follow the rule but this is a legal issue with the manufacturers.

Well, I have.

I had a call about a breaker making noise. To make a long story short, the breaker was for the range and when I pulled it out to inspect it part of it stayed on the bus, arcing and sparking and melting metal. I kept the breaker (not the same make as the panel), which has a hole burned in it big enough to stick my finger in as a show and tell and a demo as to why we don't use just anything that fits into the panel. To make things worse, below me in the basement was a 500 gallon fuel oil tank about half full of fuel oil. That panel had about four different brands of breakers in it.

The HO was watching as I pulled out the breaker and the fireworks began. The EC didn't even have to explain why he thought the panel should be changed.
 
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Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
Well, I have.

I had a call about a breaker making noise....when I pulled it out to inspect it part of it stayed on the bus, arcing and sparking and melting metal.....That panel had about four different brands of breakers in it.

Coincidence is not necessarily causation. Have you never seen a breaker installed in a panel that listed it's use fail?
 

HoosierSparky

Senior Plans Examiner, MEP
Location
Scottsdale AZ
Occupation
Senior Plans Examiner
:p
I personally think you over stepped your authority. As others have said, the mfr. does not 'list' anything, they do pay a NRTL to test and list their equipment and components...and of course they are not going to pay to list their competitors components.

UL is a NRTL that does list and 'certify' breakers for use in others equipment.

As an inspector, and Electrical Plans Examiner, I just ask the electrician to provide me with the documentation showing the breaker in question is listed/certified to be used in the panel being inspected. Only when the electrician cannot provide me with the necessary documentation do I fail the installation. [Actually I don't fail the installation, I write a correction notice requiring him to install a certified/listed component].

On these inspections I give them a 'pass with conditions' - no final until the conditions have been met. I don't think it is right to fail a job out of hand just because I don't have all the information...the electrician should be given an opportunity to verify he is right.

As mentioned by other posters, it does look more professional using the breakers made by the manufacturer of the panels. Since reading is fundemental, look and read the cover of any new panel. The manufacturer lists the approved breakers they recommend for use in that particular panel.

Sure, it you can make anything work, if you want. Why take a chance? Based on your YEARS of experience? What do you save by not using the recommended breakers? A trip to the warehouse? Didn't you plan ahead? I always stock a few 15 and 20amp breakers in my service truck. Having the right parts on hand saves me time, makes my job look good and makes me a hero to my client.
 
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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
:p

As mentioned by other posters, it does look more professional using the breakers made by the manufacturer of the panels. Since reading is fundemental, look and read the cover of any new panel. The manufacturer lists the approved breakers they recommend for use in that particular panel.

Sure, it you can make anything work, if you want. Why take a chance? Based on your YEARS of experience? What do you save by not using the recommended breakers? A trip to the warehouse? Didn't you plan ahead? I always stock a few 15 and 20amp breakers in my service truck. Having the right parts on hand saves me time, makes my job look good and makes me a hero to my client.

I have many different brands and sizes on my trucks much more than my competitors but you just cannot have all of them. In my area we have Ge , Ge thin, Murray, SD home, SD qo, ITE, Challenger, sylvania, bull dog push matic, zinsco.
I will install a compatable on a weekend in a pinch ,but will always return with the proper part when I have aqired a new one. Many will leave the wrong one in and call it good.
 
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