Fear of heights in employee

Status
Not open for further replies.

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Reminds me of that guy who died on QVC or one of those shopping networks demonstrating climbing a little giant ladder or something like that...he was only a few steps up, but hit his head really hard when he fell.:(

He did not die, he was on Tosh.0 reenacting it. :)
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I don't like heights myself. Just last week hooked up a motor at top of 125 foot grain elevator. Had to get used to it or fire myself.

As long as I am tied on to something I trust it goes a long way with my confidence of knowing I will not fall. I shouldn't really say I don't like heights, I kind of enjoyed being up there, just that potential to fall really works my nerves.

Getting up to the top is the hard part for me, that and if the wind is up.

The Nebraska wind gauge is similar to the one on Mt Washington except we wait for the links to start snapping off before we feel the wind is coming up.
 

satcom

Senior Member
Getting up to the top is the hard part for me, that and if the wind is up.

The Nebraska wind gauge is similar to the one on Mt Washington except we wait for the links to start snapping off before we feel the wind is coming up.

I spent many hours flying stunt planes, and operating tower ladders, and there were times when I was using some lift equipment in wind conditions, where i could understand some guys feeling unsure of their situation.
Try not to call someone a wimp on a job, they may feel pressured to go up, and then you may have to deal with a guy freezing up there
 

MichaelGP3

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco bay area
Occupation
Fire Alarm Technician
.....Try not to call someone a wimp on a job, they may feel pressured to go up, and then you may have to deal with a guy freezing up there

Well said, satcom.

When I studied Tai Chi a long time ago, the biggest single thing I got out of it was a major improvement in my balance. I started seeing this after only 4-6 weeks. And I thought I had good balance before.

So, if I liked working with the guy, I'd recommend it.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Remember too, there are more extreme flakes than people afraid of ladders. I worked in a restaurant years back. One night, I assigned people different tasks to prepare for dinner hour. Told 1 girl to light the Sternos on the buffet table. Came back by awhile later, not lit. Told her again, "don't forget the Sternos". 5 minutes later, no fire. I asked what was going on. Her reply was "I've been ducking that because I'm afraid of those things". I said "come over & I'll show you how to light them. See, just light a match and touch to the edge of the can, no big thing, no danger". She said "I'm afraid to light matches". She was a college student. So flaky can go to some real extremes. I'd have physically kicked her out the door if I hadn't needed all hands that night. Not only her flaky phobia, but was willing to let the buffet get cold if I hadn't noticed. That would have really gone over well. Lose customers & me get in trouble with the boss.
 

dmagyar

Senior Member
Location
Rocklin, Ca.
Things have really changed

Things have really changed

In my first six months in the trade I was sent out on a job where the rest of the crew was working in the "steel" 40' up, I wasn't asked if I wanted to, was afraid off or anything other than "thats where the work is".

I found myself out on a "pick" with a journeyman who weighed about 300 lbs. and everytime he moved I thought we were going down. The second time out on the pick it was easier and job got completed without incident. P.S. This was before the enlightened time we live in now, IE without any safety (scare straps)lines or anything.

I can't say that I was crazy about working in that situation but it's far removed from not being able to function on a six foot ladder.

I hope this doesn't come off as too judgemental but maybe some other form of employment is the best thing for this workman. I don't know how anyone could afford to employ someone who can't work off a ladder?
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
When business was slow last summer I spent more time climbing roofs and turbine towers. Wound up on top of a 110' tower (90' to the top of the tower, 20' more feet to the turntable for the turbine ...) in a nasty wind storm. Loads of fun.

I'd double check the Employee Handbook and make sure that "climb ladders up to XXX feet" is listed as a job requirement. Speculating about how long to keep the guy is pointless until that's been done. Figure out how to go from there.

There is another issue and that is that I suspect the employer and/or supervisor is aware that this person has a fear of heights. Depending on how you read the guidelines for the ADA, that may constitute a "request for accommodation" and continuing to send the person up the ladders may constitute a "refusal to provide a reasonable accommodation."

http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/accommodation.html

The other thing to consider is how much of a mix of tasks need to be performed -- as someone else pointed out, find out if the guy likes to dig ditches or bend pipe or whatever and see how the mix of assignments can be rearranged.
 

wawireguy

Senior Member
Is he an apprentice or journeyman? If he's a journeyman you gotta axe him. Ladders and heights are part of the job up to a point. If he's an apprentice I'd give him some time on the ladder. Shouldn't take more than a week to get used to it. Ladders and reasonable heights are a every day part of this job. Now I was working for a guy once in a while part time and he wanted me to ride a 120' boom lift. I declined that offer. High winds in the area. Unstable ground. No training on equipment. Screw that.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Is he an apprentice or journeyman? If he's a journeyman you gotta axe him. Ladders and heights are part of the job up to a point. If he's an apprentice I'd give him some time on the ladder. Shouldn't take more than a week to get used to it. Ladders and reasonable heights are a every day part of this job. Now I was working for a guy once in a while part time and he wanted me to ride a 120' boom lift. I declined that offer. High winds in the area. Unstable ground. No training on equipment. Screw that.

With what you said here in mind the OP should probably give the fearful employee a training session on ladder use and safety. OSHA probably requires this anyway. Then give him a little time and let him know if he can't do certain tasks he is not needed.
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
I'd suggest the use of the word "essential" in front of any use of the word "task". That's how the ADA is written -- "essential" versus "margin" tasks. If climbing ladders really is an "essential task", make sure you state it that way. Otherwise, if this guy could spend his entire life on or below ground, and y'all still get all your jobs done, you'd have to consider making a "reasonable accommodation".
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'd suggest the use of the word "essential" in front of any use of the word "task". That's how the ADA is written -- "essential" versus "margin" tasks. If climbing ladders really is an "essential task", make sure you state it that way. Otherwise, if this guy could spend his entire life on or below ground, and y'all still get all your jobs done, you'd have to consider making a "reasonable accommodation".

If he were my employee I would still get all my jobs done. Problem is they would take same time with or without him. If he would be able to do certain tasks it could possibly speed things up. If he had a problem going over lets say 20 feet off the ground at least he would be useful most of the time but the OP stated this guy can not even work on a 6ft ladder. This makes him useless to just about any construction related trade, the smaller the crew he works with the more useless he is.

ADA needs to keep their nose out of certain jobs. A person can either do the job or they can't. How many people are there that are not able to use their limbs but have jobs climbing communication towers, or same people that dig ditches with hand spades? How many of them even consider applying for such jobs. They realize this is something that just is not going to work very well.
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
ADA needs to keep their nose out of certain jobs. A person can either do the job or they can't. How many people are there that are not able to use their limbs but have jobs climbing communication towers, or same people that dig ditches with hand spades? How many of them even consider applying for such jobs. They realize this is something that just is not going to work very well.

ADA makes a distinction between "essential" and "margin" for the reasons given. If a company has a large number of employees who work in trenches, an employee with a fear of heights would be able to work at negative heights (heh) just fine and perform all of the "essential" tasks.

However, if working above grade is an "essential" task because all employees have to work above grade, a person who can't stand on a stepping stool 1' off the floor wouldn't be protected.

The key to ADA is understanding what is an essential task and what isn't.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
We recently hired a new guy. He is afraid of heights, I just found out. Not just boom or scissor lifts. We were running MC on 10' ladders. Flat floors all around. Took more time to get up and down the ladder than actually worked.

How long would give before letting go? Would you even tolerate this?

lotta good responses on this, particularly about ADA compliance.

in your 90 day probationary period, you can let him go, without cause.
after that, you may have some exposure.

god help you if any responsible personnel have criticized the guy or
been unwilling to "accommodate" him.

as i see it, if he has a fear, and cannot get past it, it's a serious risk
to leave him in the job. fear is a powerful mental state that tends to
attract the very thing we are afraid of.

he, and your company, both deserve better than scraping him off the
floor one day, 'cause he's scared spitless and flinched and fell.

i've worked a lot over the years with helping people resolve fear, but
the only process i know that works for that is not able to be implemented
in a work environment.
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
in your 90 day probationary period, you can let him go, without cause.

That's true, so long as the cause isn't "fear of heights".

The ADA doesn't allow for a "probationary period", to the best of my knowledge. If the guy is a good worker and he can be kept on the ground, in a ditch, or underground in a vault, the ADA would expect you to keep him.

However, if you don't have enough work that is on the ground, in the ground, or under the ground, he can be dismissed for cause as "unable to perform the essential tasks of the job".

One comment about people who fall under ADA protection, based on my experience -- most are extremely grateful to have a job, profoundly loyal, and work extra hard. In this guy's case, I suspect he'd be willing to do other jobs that people might hate -- like, trenching in wire and pipe. But, if there isn't enough of that work, referring him to a colleague who has plenty of that kind of work is what I'd do.

Another thing to consider is that not dumping someone with a disability may well make your other employees feel good about working there -- being stuck on the ground for a month with an injury is a lot less worrisome if you know you're not going to be cut loose.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The last company I worked for had to can a guy that was to fat for ladders. I am sure they put it diffrently than that but that was the reason.

They checked into getting stronger ladders but he was more than 350 pounds, it would have had to be a custom ladder.

Saw him flatten a chair in a University lunch room we were having break in ........... it was really funny. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top