Used MCC - how much

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The real question may be how low is the seller willing to go and if anyone else is interested in buying it.

5 years old can be almost like new, however it is customized to where it was located and not to what your needs are. If you need to add or change things to be able to use what you need you have to consider that cost also.

If you are just buying it because you could use it but don't have to I would not go any higher than 20-25% of what new would cost you.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Typically it is break even for removing it. You remove it and keep it for payment. Unless you have the capbilities to completely restore it and test, certify, and waranty everything in there it is only worth its weight in copper.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Like new condition. We can use part of it then need to add a new section (cheaper than buckets only).

Cheaper than buckets???? Where are you getting that from? Plus you factor in all the downtime and labor for removing old MCC and adding new section and you are looking at 10X the cost of buckets.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Typically it is break even for removing it. You remove it and keep it for payment. Unless you have the capbilities to completely restore it and test, certify, and waranty everything in there it is only worth its weight in copper.

Have you ever bought a used car with an as is warranty?
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Cheaper than buckets???? Where are you getting that from? Plus you factor in all the downtime and labor for removing old MCC and adding new section and you are looking at 10X the cost of buckets.

I can order a new section for this MCC complete with starters the size I need for less than I can order 6 individual buckets to slip into an existing section. Pricing is from my wholesaler. Other wholesalers have told me the same thing in the past.

Removal of this used equipment and installation at a new site are additional portions of the project. I know how much the customer is willing to pay for the used equipment sitting at my shop. I have to figure out how much I want to pay for it along with tearout costs which could be substantial.

I am walking a fine line. Both the buyer and the seller are new customers.

All three of us fully understand "tail light warranties". That said, I would not even consider the equipment if I did not have an idea as to its condition.
 

satcom

Senior Member
They usually have to pay for the demo work and even if it has some scrap value they charge to truck it away, one local manufacturing plant had a MCC that was 4 months old they had to pay to pay to have disconnected and removed
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I'd say somewhere between 25-50% of new cost. Assuming it's not going to be a huge labor intensive PIA to remove it....
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I am walking a fine line. Both the buyer and the seller are new customers.

If these folks don't know each other you may be in a good position. Every time you try to sell a used piece of industrial equipment it's always the same thing. NO one needs it and they would have to pay to transport and store and then sell said equipment. When you try to buy used equipment you get the other side of the story, all about how much it cost to remove, transport and store said equipment.

If you know both the buyer and seller and they don't know each other then you could ship the storage and keeping money tied up in inventory that you don't need.

As far as to what used equipment is worth if you have to remove and transport I wouldn't think over 10% of new cost. You will probably have to sell at 50-60% of new if you are lucky. Removel and transport will eat up much of the difference.

I have herd it said that you should buy cheap and sell dear. I'm not sure who said it but it does sound logical. :happyyes:
 
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zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I can order a new section for this MCC complete with starters the size I need for less than I can order 6 individual buckets to slip into an existing section. Pricing is from my wholesaler. Other wholesalers have told me the same thing in the past.
Because thier job is to sell you the new line up. I likely have these buckets in stock, fully tested, for a fraction of what they quoted you.

Removal of this used equipment and installation at a new site are additional portions of the project. I know how much the customer is willing to pay for the used equipment sitting at my shop. I have to figure out how much I want to pay for it along with tearout costs which could be substantial.

I am walking a fine line. Both the buyer and the seller are new customers.

All three of us fully understand "tail light warranties". That said, I would not even consider the equipment if I did not have an idea as to its condition.
When you say you know the condition is that because you have done all the required testing or just because it looks pretty?
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Because thier job is to sell you the new line up. I likely have these buckets in stock, fully tested, for a fraction of what they quoted you.

When you say you know the condition is that because you have done all the required testing or just because it looks pretty?
Good point... it is pretty. I also installed it and, other than my help, am the only one that has had their hands in it. We did all the work for the previous owner. Fused main with no GFI simplifies things.
 

dduffee260

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Cheaper than buckets???? Where are you getting that from? Plus you factor in all the downtime and labor for removing old MCC and adding new section and you are looking at 10X the cost of buckets.

If you purchase just the buckets they will be 4 or 5 times higher than if they were in a section. Been there, done that. It is much cheaper to buy a section and remove the bucket you need then keep the rest. Reason being is the mfgs have it in their pricing that a bucket is a must have and a section is something others can supply. Just like a new car is cheaper than buying the parts and putting one together.
 

norcal

Senior Member
I cannot speak for other States but in CA, if a contractor furnishes material they must warranty it for a year, this may or may not be a issue but this can take the luster off used materials real quick.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
If you purchase just the buckets they will be 4 or 5 times higher than if they were in a section. Been there, done that. It is much cheaper to buy a section and remove the bucket you need then keep the rest. Reason being is the mfgs have it in their pricing that a bucket is a must have and a section is something others can supply. Just like a new car is cheaper than buying the parts and putting one together.

So wrong, you are just talking to the wrong people. Do you really think that makes sense that it is cheaper to buy a section and throw away what you don't need??? That is how the OEM's play the game. I see these games everyday in my job and they are all marketing ploys designed by accountants to prey on the misinformed.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I cannot speak for other States but in CA, if a contractor furnishes material they must warranty it for a year, this may or may not be a issue but this can take the luster off used materials real quick.

Should be a law everywhere. They should also require certified test reports to be provided with the equipment to weed out the junk dealers.
 

dduffee260

Senior Member
Location
Texas
So wrong, you are just talking to the wrong people. Do you really think that makes sense that it is cheaper to buy a section and throw away what you don't need??? That is how the OEM's play the game. I see these games everyday in my job and they are all marketing ploys designed by accountants to prey on the misinformed.

I don't know if it makes sense or not, this is how it is. We learned about 10 years ago, we were needing 2-480 volt 250 amp 35kaic breakers, Sq D for an existing switchgear. Got the quote back and it was $2500 each. So we sent in for a quote on a 12 space panel with these two breakers. Got the price back at $1700 total. Took out the breakers and salvaged the interior.

Want another example? We needed 2 size 5 buckets for an MCC several years ago. It was a 3 section MCC Main Circuit Breaker of 1200 amps with about 14 buckets and 2 were size 4. MCC cost was about $14,000. We ordered the 2 size 5's to replace the 4's because the customer bumped up the motor size and the price for the size 5's was $9800. Learned the hard way there but had to pass on the costs.

Since then we have ordered several MCC sections when we only needed one or two size 3 or 4's and breakers for switchboards See the manufacturers have their selling pricing set so that if you need a part such as Sq D, GE, CH or Seimens to fit that MCC or switchboard you have to have that part. You cannot interchange these so they know it is either pay their price or do without. If you need to whole panel or MCC then you can use any brand you want and their software and pricing reflects this. They do not know that you taking the part out, they think they are competing with the others for an entire section.

As far as talking to the wrong people. we ask our suppliers for quotes. We don't know who else to ask. Do you have a magic supplier that will sell us buckets and breakers for less? This is a marketing ploy. It is called making money if your a manufacturer and they have it down pat. Still think I am wrong? Go try this and see what happens.
 
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dduffee260

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Stupid question....What is a bucket?

A bucket is what is commonly the term for a section on a motor control center or MCC. The reason they call it a bucket is because it comes in a packaged setup that just slides into the MCC or switchboard pretty seamlessly. How it got that term I don't know, it's just what they have always called it. I guess it could also be called a module.
 
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