Permit

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Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
Had a lady call me the other day,Wanted me to pull a permit for a hottub,installed by someone else. This lady worked for a store that sold spas&hottubs. she was in Penn. I am in Tenn.She had a customer in my area, that needed an inspection. I told her that I don't permit for work I didn't do. She could not understand. I asked who installed the hottub?
She did not Know. I suggested she find out and get them to buy the permit. She presisted wanting me to permit this job. After I had explained the liabilities for a job like this.I finally told her if I did it would cost her the same price as an install.I think she finally got the message.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Safe to say an unlicensed person did the work. I believe Pa does not require a license- perhaps that is why she was confused by your reluctance.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
My wife had a co worker ask if I would get a permit for her husband to wire an addition to their house. I think he was a GC, or worked for one. They lived in next city east. I sent word they were out of my area, that he should make the request of the electrician that works for him, that he has a relationship with.

I will close my doors before having to do that arrangement.

I wonder if the sales woman would give a guarantee on a hot tub sold by someone else? Or take a return on it? Same principle.
 
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augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
The sad truth is, that with just a little fib ("I did it") , the homeowner could permit themselves in many parts of TN.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
So take all the information from them and give it to the AHJ, but not through the typical application process, you can even offer to do it for free:)
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Someone called my boss the other day and wanted him to bootleg a permit, he asked them who gave them his number, because they must have been messing with them. (he sits on the state licensing board:lol:)
 

satcom

Senior Member
The sad truth is, that with just a little fib ("I did it") , the homeowner could permit themselves in many parts of TN.

In many states the homeowner is allowed do do their own work and apply for a permit, the problem is if someone, other then the homeowner did the work and they were unlicensed in a state where a license is required and something goes wrong like a fire or loss of life, then both the homeowner and the trunkslammer could both face criminal charges and have big liability issues.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Had a lady call me the other day,Wanted me to pull a permit for a hottub,installed by someone else. This lady worked for a store that sold spas&hottubs. she was in Penn. I am in Tenn.She had a customer in my area, that needed an inspection. I told her that I don't permit for work I didn't do. She could not understand. I asked who installed the hottub?
She did not Know. I suggested she find out and get them to buy the permit. She presisted wanting me to permit this job. After I had explained the liabilities for a job like this.I finally told her if I did it would cost her the same price as an install.I think she finally got the message.

i'll be happy to verify any electrical installation, and make sure it is code compliant.
i'll be happy to pull a permit on any installation AFTER i have
brought it up to code, AND BEEN PAID FOR THAT PROCESS, WHICH
MAY EXCEED THE COST OF HAVING ME WIRE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
the cost of the permit, and of my time interacting with the AHJ will be
of course on a time and material basis, and in addition to the cost of
bringing the installation into code compliance.

of course, i have to verify the address of the property to see if i have
a city license to work in that city.

if the "customer" does not want me to bring the work
up to compliance, after i'm done talking to them, my next call will
be to the AHJ, informing them of a possible danger to life and
property existing at such and such address.

not my job? not my business? tell that to the person who gets
electrocuted in a pool or spa.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Fulthrotl has some very good ideas, but I think he - and the rest of you - are missing the point.

The point is that the latest 'fad' seems to be for firms to hire their own crews, and then go shopping for someone who will rent out their license. Look at the ads, commonly found on internet boards like Craigslist. I'd post one for discussion, but, alas, such threads tend to quickly go off tangent into cussfests. (Maybe thats where the 'no Craigslist' policy comes from.)

The firm will say we need a guy with a license, We provide the crew. You pull permits. You want to see the site, fine - but you'll have no say in the job. Don't think you'll ever make a lot of money from us, have a management role, or become a partner. We just need someone to sign the papers. It's all because of those pesky licensing rules made by corrupt politicians in hick towns.

Another variation is the 'we're hiring' pitch. We give you the calls. You provide tools, truck, ladders, license, bookkeeping, scheduling, etc. You work out of your house; our 'office' is on the other side of the country, and we never answer the phone. Give us the billing info, and we'll share with you some of what the customer sends us .... maybe.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Had a lady call me the other day,Wanted me to pull a permit for a hottub,installed by someone else. This lady worked for a store that sold spas&hottubs. she was in Penn. I am in Tenn.She had a customer in my area, that needed an inspection. I told her that I don't permit for work I didn't do. She could not understand. I asked who installed the hottub?

If they have been caught then someone does have to pull a permit and have the job inspected.

The install will have to be brought up to code.

I will do a job like this but the price will normally be as much as a new install or maybe even more.

What I wouldn't do is work for a company located in PA unless they provide payment by credit card. I would get the name and address of the homeowner and have them pay for the work and they can try to collect from the PA spa company.

It's hard for them to get anyone to even deal with a job like this so the price will be high. If needed you just rip everything out and start from scratch.

You did right by telling them the price would be the same as a new install because that's what it would normally be. If you are lucky they may have provided a GFCI breaker that can be used.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I believe the exception is only for the homeowner of a single family dwelling in Ca.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Fulthrotl has some very good ideas, but I think he - and the rest of you - are missing the point.

The point is that the latest 'fad' seems to be for firms to hire their own crews, and then go shopping for someone who will rent out their license. Look at the ads, commonly found on internet boards like Craigslist. I'd post one for discussion, but, alas, such threads tend to quickly go off tangent into cussfests. (Maybe thats where the 'no Craigslist' policy comes from.)

The firm will say we need a guy with a license, We provide the crew. You pull permits. You want to see the site, fine - but you'll have no say in the job. Don't think you'll ever make a lot of money from us, have a management role, or become a partner. We just need someone to sign the papers. It's all because of those pesky licensing rules made by corrupt politicians in hick towns.

Another variation is the 'we're hiring' pitch. We give you the calls. You provide tools, truck, ladders, license, bookkeeping, scheduling, etc. You work out of your house; our 'office' is on the other side of the country, and we never answer the phone. Give us the billing info, and we'll share with you some of what the customer sends us .... maybe.

yeah, there are a couple topics here that are worse than peanut butter
stuck to the roof of your mouth....

craigslist posts
ground up, or ground down on receptacles ;-)
this trade has gone to hell, because of (insert rant here)

most of those things you mention are not new, but they sure get
played a lot more with the internet dumping us all into close contact.

one of the local service companies here in socal takes out full page
ads in the yellow pages, two half page ads on the same page, two
different names, one call center... they are always hiring sparkys,
and carry a couple hundred on their call sheet, for service work.

i went to one of their "orientation" meetings to see what the scam
was... this was a long time ago, but the model hasn't changed.

you buy all your own material. you provide your own truck, tools,
gas, insurance, and pager or cellphone. (this was a while ago)

they call you when they have a service call for you. you do the work,
minimum charging the job for your labor and 500% markup on the
materials. you don't reset tripped breakers, you replace them.

you turn in your completed "package" with a sheet on how many hours,
and how much material you spent, ALONG WITH YOUR ORIGINAL RECEIPTS
FOR THE MATERIAL.

they split the labor with you 50/50 and you get 1/3 of the profit on the
material.

they keep the receipts.
you get a check cut for what they owe you.

come tax time, they give you a ****1099**** for all the money you
got from them, so you pay tax on the whole thing. including the material
you bought.

they write off the money they paid you, and all the material that you
bought, as they have the original receipts for it.

you are on call 24/7. if you refuse a call, or don't answer, they move
your number to the "don't call for a little while" bin.

if you get up from their seminar, laughing hysterically, they don't call
you very soon either.

they did say their average service call was $425, and they did 800
of them a month, or some number they probably made up.... but if
they didn't......

no employees. no workers comp. one old crusty sparky running the show,
and two guys for doing warranty work. 99% residential service calls.

a three man shop. with a couple hundred "associates"

while they were spewing this, i was working out a profit and loss for
them.....

$425 x 800 x 12 = $4,080,000 Gross Receipts....

anyway, they were deducting the material THAT THEY DIDN'T PAY FOR,
twice, once in the 1099 that went back to the employee, and once with
the original receipt that they kept when the employee turned in their
submittal to get paid.

the deal that is too good to be true, is usually false.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
It's changed, property owners can now pull permits, even on commercial projects.

Are you sure that is not a local issue and not state?
If you have a chance can you post the code section.

I found the section I think it's 19825 HS
 
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satcom

Senior Member
It's changed, property owners can now pull permits, even on commercial projects.
In Jersey it has been that way for a number of years the owner or an officer if it is a corporation has to apply for the permit, and they take on all the liability.
 
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