Edison

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gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
190211-2234 EST

172 years ago today, 11 February 1847, Thomas A. Edison was born. 72 years ago on his 100 th birthday I sent a hand keyed Western Union message to members of his family from the Smiths Creek railway station in Greenfield Village. I am sure that this was just a formality, and that the actual message traveled by Teletype. Today the telegraph desk is rotated 90 degrees from its original position. The president of Western Union was present, Henry Ford was not because his health was failing. Henry died in April 1947 during a period when we had very heavy rains and the Fairlaine Estate dam was totaly covered in water. This was the highest level I ever saw the Rouge River. So Henry died by candlelight as he had been born. His estate was DC powered and had battery backup, but no AC to DC conversion as added backup. A dam flooded over by many feet of water does not produce much power.

My life overlapped Edison's, but I was too young to meet him. I believe some of my older schoolmates did meet Edison, but none are around now for me to ask them. Frances Yehl I did meet, but too young to ask questions I would ask today. Yehl was the last living person to have been present at the making and burning of Edison's first successful light bulb in 1879.

My photo P12 at http://beta-a2.com/EE-photos.html shows Edison, Ford, and Yehl at the 1929 reenactment. President Herbert Hoover was also present, but not in this photo. The movie of the reenactment is available from the National Archives.

In Yehl's book he mentions Edison's discovery of magnetic iron core saturation. He also discusses Edison's understanding that to make a practical electrical power distribution system that the loads needed to be connected in parallel, the voltage reasonably high, and the source impedance low. This was in contrast to common thinking at the time of maximum power transfer as the criteria, which is extremely inefficient. I think 110 was a practical compromise between what could be made and efficiency. Note that Edison invented the 3 wire distribution system to improve efficiency. Thus, the concept of a neutral goes back a very long way.

Edison's electric lighting system initially was not less costly than gas lighting, but it was more convenient and safer.

.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Edison bought any brains he had, summarily screwing the one genius he employed

It took him (and his minions) thousands of attempts to light up a bulb, where it took said particular gifted man a stick to draw the concept of 3phase in the sand in a moment of inspiration.

~RJ~
 

junkhound

Senior Member
Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
Edison bought any brains he had, summarily screwing the one genius he employed

It took him (and his minions) thousands of attempts to light up a bulb, where it took said particular gifted man a stick to draw the concept of 3phase in the sand in a moment of inspiration.

~RJ~

Edison himself supposedly said it was 99% perspiration and only 1% inspiration. :?

An older genius was said to have died at the hand of a Roman soldier while he drew diagrams in the sand at Syracuse* - Moral of story, ya gotta look up once in awhile to notice the world around you?


* the legions has specific orders to NOT harm that particular Greek.
 

junkhound

Senior Member
Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
190211-2234 EST

72 years ago on his 100 th birthday I sent a hand keyed Western Union message to members of his family from the Smiths Creek railway station in Greenfield Village.
.

Nice story, thanks for sharing.
Once in awhile us poor mortal get contact with some truly intelligent and innovative folks.
In about 1978, I had to present a review of our company approach for EMP protection of missile silos to a government committee headed by 4 physicists who had been part of Manhattan program and were at the Trinity test. Brings out then humility in a person.
 

StarCat

Industrial Engineering Tech
Location
Moab, UT USA
Occupation
Imdustrial Engineering Technician - HVACR Electrical and Mechanical Systems
The Greatest Contemporary Electrician

The Greatest Contemporary Electrician

190211-2234 EST

172 years ago today, 11 February 1847, Thomas A. Edison was born. 72 years ago on his 100 th birthday I sent a hand keyed Western Union message to members of his family from the Smiths Creek railway station in Greenfield Village. I am sure that this was just a formality, and that the actual message traveled by Teletype. Today the telegraph desk is rotated 90 degrees from its original position. The president of Western Union was present, Henry Ford was not because his health was failing. Henry died in April 1947 during a period when we had very heavy rains and the Fairlaine Estate dam was totaly covered in water. This was the highest level I ever saw the Rouge River. So Henry died by candlelight as he had been born. His estate was DC powered and had battery backup, but no AC to DC conversion as added backup. A dam flooded over by many feet of water does not produce much power.

My life overlapped Edison's, but I was too young to meet him. I believe some of my older schoolmates did meet Edison, but none are around now for me to ask them. Frances Yehl I did meet, but too young to ask questions I would ask today. Yehl was the last living person to have been present at the making and burning of Edison's first successful light bulb in 1879.

My photo P12 at http://beta-a2.com/EE-photos.html shows Edison, Ford, and Yehl at the 1929 reenactment. President Herbert Hoover was also present, but not in this photo. The movie of the reenactment is available from the National Archives.

In Yehl's book he mentions Edison's discovery of magnetic iron core saturation. He also discusses Edison's understanding that to make a practical electrical power distribution system that the loads needed to be connected in parallel, the voltage reasonably high, and the source impedance low. This was in contrast to common thinking at the time of maximum power transfer as the criteria, which is extremely inefficient. I think 110 was a practical compromise between what could be made and efficiency. Note that Edison invented the 3 wire distribution system to improve efficiency. Thus, the concept of a neutral goes back a very long way.

Edison's electric lighting system initially was not less costly than gas lighting, but it was more convenient and safer.

.

The Greatest Modern day Electrician is Eric Dollard. He has explained clearly when all forward progress in Electrical Science was stopped cold and also how the power grid is being degraded and made prgressively more unsafe and unstable by very bad decisions indeed that do not make electrical sense even with the current paradigm.
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
190211-2234 EST... 72 years ago on his 100 th birthday I sent a hand keyed Western Union message to members of his family from the Smiths Creek railway station in Greenfield Village. ...

My life overlapped Edison's, but I was too young to meet him. ....

Gar -
This is you? This makes you likely over 100.
If so, I am freaking impressed
 

junkhound

Senior Member
Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
Eric D . .

Never heard of him....so looked on internet - BTW don't bother....aka 'magic carpet ride'?

possible spam overall, e.g 20 bucks for a mailed out stapled 1920s reprint?

Stapled: 38 pp
Language: English
Product Code: B0020
Price: $19.95
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
190212-1129 EST

iceworm:

No just 88. Had two uncles that lived to 102. One great uncle that fought in the civil war and lived to 95. Starting in the 1300s there were a number of people that lived into their 80s. Possibly even before the 1300s there was good longevity. Just in looking at one path back to 1080 I saw the improvement around 1300. This was not a broad based analysis.

There are idea people and there are most others. Some of these idea people are Newton, Leibniz, Newcomen, Watt, Jacquard, Babbage, Bell, Edison, Tesla, Ford, Marconi, de Forest, Hazeltine ( http://www.wshu.org/post/hazeltine-silent-contributor#stream/0 ), Aiken ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_H._Aiken ), Burks, von Neunamm, and many others.

All these people built on prior knowledge, combined it in various ways, and added something to the prior knowledge.

.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
190212-1240 EST

On energy transfer.

Broadly to our knowledge you can look at electric, magnetic, and electro-magnetic fields as separate areas.

Electric and magnetic fields alone store energy that can be returned to the source. The combination of correlated electric and magnetic fields produces radiation that propagates outward from the source never to return.

If you radiate energy from an isotropic radiator, then the power leaves the radiator and is spread uniformly over a spherical surface. As you move further from the source the power density has to decrease by the inverse square law. At any location you can only absorb at most the energy represented by the power density at that point and the area of your collector. The energy you absorb reduces the amount of energy seen further out in the shadow of your absorber. So in radar you have at most the 4th power inverse for received power.

If you could ideally create a beam with no dispersion and absorption, then ideally all the input beam energy could be received at a destination. If no destination, then energy is lost. Since energy is conserved this is not accurate, but a useful as a concept.

There are ideas to collect solar energy out in space, then beam this to earth at microwave frequencies not absorbed much by our atmosphere. Should produce global warning.

.
 

sameguy

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Master Elec./JW retired
There are ideas to collect solar energy out in space, then beam this to earth at microwave frequencies not absorbed much by our atmosphere. Should produce global warning.
I brought this up in 1975 in a college electronics lecture and the "professor " who previously worked for GM told me I had no idea of what I was talking about. I dropped out after one ~year.
Many people have ideas it's those who produce that are the greatest.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
There are ideas to collect solar energy out in space, then beam this to earth at microwave frequencies not absorbed much by our atmosphere. Should produce global warning.
I brought this up in 1975 in a college electronics lecture and the "professor " who previously worked for GM told me I had no idea of what I was talking about. I dropped out after one ~year.
Many people have ideas it's those who produce that are the greatest.

I took a course at UT (Texas) in ~1983 that addressed the concept of solar powersats in geosynchronous orbit beaming energy via microwaves to rectenna arrays on Earth. Most of the tech for it is already there with the exception of a way to deal with getting all the materials to build such a thing up out of the Earth's gravity well.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
190212-1514 EST

iceworm:

Yes. And one other student a year younger sent another message. I also worked in the Menlo Park machine shop when I was 10. The machines were driven by an overhead line shaft powered from the big steam engine.

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GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
There are ideas to collect solar energy out in space, then beam this to earth at microwave frequencies not absorbed much by our atmosphere. Should produce global warning.
I brought this up in 1975 in a college electronics lecture and the "professor " who previously worked for GM told me I had no idea of what I was talking about. I dropped out after one ~year.
Many people have ideas it's those who produce that are the greatest.
Depends on where the satellite is intercepting the energy. If the earth is not in its shadow, then there will, in effect, be more total energy reaching the surface of the earth. But it will produce zero greenhouse gasses.
When you burn a fossil fuel the direct warming from combustion heat is quite small compared to the indirect warming caused by greenhouse effect (Which just keeps on giving.:)). The net effect should be to reduce global warming as long as the alternative to beamed power is fossil fuel based generation.
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
190212-1514 EST

iceworm:

Yes. And one other student a year younger sent another message. I also worked in the Menlo Park machine shop when I was 10. The machines were driven by an overhead line shaft powered from the big steam engine.

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Now that is some history. I'm definitely impressed. Tell us some more of this time. I'm interested
 

grich

Senior Member
Location
MP89.5, Mason City Subdivision
Occupation
Broadcast Engineer
Gar,

What drew you to telegraphy as a teenager? I realize that skill was necessary for amateur radio operators of the time, and being able to pound Morse back then was still a useful skill for railroad agents even though voice communication was taking over. I've listened to pretty slow speed code and I still can't make sense of it.
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
Depends on where the satellite is intercepting the energy. If the earth is not in its shadow, then there will, in effect, be more total energy reaching the surface of the earth. But it will produce zero greenhouse gasses.
When you burn a fossil fuel the direct warming from combustion heat is quite small compared to the indirect warming caused by greenhouse effect (Which just keeps on giving.:)). The net effect should be to reduce global warming as long as the alternative to beamed power is fossil fuel based generation.

I have absolutely no idea, but I'm wondering. What is the emissions footprint of the launching of the satellite from earth's surface? What is the energy-production capability of the fuel used to do that instead of something else? Not to mention the production of all the material used in the entire mechanisms involved in the process. When is that recovered from the "free" solar energy in orbit and beamed through whatever losses are in the process?
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
190212-2204 EST

iceworm:

I missed by 1 year being part of the New York Worlds Fair exhibit where a miniature working model of the machine shop was on exhibit and in operation.

https://www.thehenryford.org/explore/blog/thomas-edisons-menlo-park-laboratory/ The second floor, and mercury vacuum pump.
https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/361563/ I believe the tree in the background is one that Kenneth Litogot and I used to try to climb.
http://gfv1929.blogspot.com/2008/07/thomas-edisons-menlo-park-office-and.html Menlo Park office.
https://www.thehenryford.org/collec...-collections/artifact/179489/#slide=gs-223293 Second floor of lab.
https://www.thehenryford.org/explore/inside/edison-at-work/
https://www.thehenryford.org/collec...tal-collections/artifact/6554#slide=gs-222546 1880 electric train engine.
https://www.thehenryford.org/collec...al-collections/artifact/69056#slide=gs-259684 1870 tool set.
https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/83459 Early bulb.
https://www.thoughtco.com/thomas-edisons-inventions-4057898
https://ethw.org/Thomas_Edison_at_Menlo_Park Good short summary. Mentions the invention of the industrial research laboratory concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F51Lm8zI5bw This movie is very good and very long.

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