gfci on afci circuit tripping

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Howard Burger

Senior Member
Would having a gfci on the end of an afci protected general lighting circuit cause the gfci to be more sensitive?

Homowner reports two outdoor gfci 15 amp recepts. trip on his skill saw. Both circuits are afci protected general lighting circuits and end with gfci.

I had him try his saw on the non-afci dedicated headbolt heater circuit, one of the non-afci SA circuits and also the non-afci bath gfci recept. circuit; he reports no problem.

My understanding of the gfci is that it monitors return current and trips if the difference between line and load exceed 6 miliamps. Shouldn't have anything to do with breaker or other loads upstream from gfci, should it?

I'll go replace both gfcis Monday, but would appreciate any input if you've had something similar happen.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
The problem either lies within the saw or what the GFCI perceives is a problem. You might try a different brand of GFCI receptacle but I have heard some say certain saws wouldn't work well on GFCIs.
 

Howard Burger

Senior Member
Yeah, my thoughts also. I plan on hauling in my Skill circ. saw (I think he said his was a Makita) and also my Milwaukee corded recip saw to see if they will trip the gfi. Good idea about changing brands. The ones I put in were from the orange store, Levitons I think.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I have had very few problems with GFCIs. Lightning, ants, and moisture are the big three. Most of the time they do what they are supposed to do, which includes tripping caused by the three.

I have decided that the next houses we do I will not install an outdoor gfci on an AFCI circuit. We did one like that and they used the outlet to run 200' of extension cords to a remote building they were building. They had problems with it. Now was it the distance, or the saws , I don't know but I do know that it may be issues with saws and it seems like outdoor receptacles are often used for that.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I have decided that the next houses we do I will not install an outdoor gfci on an AFCI circuit. We did one like that and they used the outlet to run 200' of extension cords to a remote building they were building. They had problems with it. Now was it the distance, or the saws , I don't know but I do know that it may be issues with saws and it seems like outdoor receptacles are often used for that.

Was it the AFCI that tripped?

I think that there has been enough discussion on here about AFCIs and universal type motors that even the mfgs should be getting a clue by now. Then again the devices are working as designed, so maybe not.:happysad:
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
It was the afci that tripped, not the gfci. I suspect the saws were the issue.

You have that backwards, the GFCI tripped, not the AFCI. That's why I suggested changing recep. brands.

Edit: After looking back, you might have been talking about the ones you had trip. If so, sorry!:slaphead:
 
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ACE1970

Member
Location
California
Understanding that the GFCI is being fed by a bedroom which requires to be AFCI protected. The smart ass Electrician who wired the home should have ran a separate circuit for the GFI's so this would have never been a problem. Even if say it is the saw the GFI should not trip being it is on an AFCI circuit it does just run him a new circuit so he never has this problem again why are some people so damn lazy meaning the person who wired the house or contractor who built it. This is why the electrical industry has no real standards.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
Understanding that the GFCI is being fed by a bedroom which requires to be AFCI protected. The smart ass Electrician who wired the home should have ran a separate circuit for the GFI's so this would have never been a problem. Even if say it is the saw the GFI should not trip being it is on an AFCI circuit it does just run him a new circuit so he never has this problem again why are some people so damn lazy meaning the person who wired the house or contractor who built it. This is why the electrical industry has no real standards.

I strongly disagree. If a separate circuit to GFI's is desirable, I don't mind a bit running it that way. And adding price to my bid. And getting fewer jobs because I'm more expensive because I'm solving a rarely occuring problem?
 

ACE1970

Member
Location
California
I see and hear all this crap all the time here in California. People in California have house parties and kiddy parties with air powered jumpers that run just under 20 amps and I get calls that the keep tripping a breaker or a GFCI. Real Electricians do it right and don't over charge people so by you saying it is more expensive you cut corners all the time which is sloppy way of doing things.
 

ACE1970

Member
Location
California
Most of us are learning as we go with AFCI and will change our practices as needed. Don't come down to hard on what is an entirely legal instal.
How is it legal if an AFCI is strickly for bedrooms and A GFCI is for the outside of a home, a bathroom,kitchen or a garage. One, you are introducing an outside receptacle to the inside of a bedroom or hallway leading to a bedroom. Remember an Arc Fault Circuit Interupeter ( AFCI ) must be installed in any bedroom circuit or hallway leading to a bedroom. What state do you people live in or have your license in if you have a license?
 
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