TESLA VS. EDISON

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CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
Between Mike Holt?s newsletter about knowledge and history, and Bob Johnson?s recent ?conundrum? I?ve decided to ask you guys about a few things. DISCLAIMER: I?ll say it up front, there aren?t many people I know personally that share my passionate interest in this subject, so I truly hope this is the proper place for this discussion. ALSO, I could never afford to attend any college (unless you count 8 years of 12B Combat Engineer training, which most people don?t) so forgive me if? no, WHEN--I am completely in the dark about things. That said, here we go:


WHY IS IT AGAIN, THAT OUR HOMES ARE POWERED WITH AC, INSTEAD OF DC???
 

CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
So you don't need a generator on every corner, mostly, IMO.

In school (small country school) I was taught about Tesla being the inventor of the radio, and Franklin discovering electricity, and Edison inventing the light bulb. My interest was born. I asked many questions and I was told that Tesla and Edison were in a ?competition? of sorts to prove whether AC or DC was the most feasible means to power the U.S. I was ultimately told that AC was chosen, because DC would require a ?sub-station? every mile or 2. NOW, I am told long distance power transmission lines are high voltage DC converted (back?) to AC closer to the point of use?
 

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I think that is somewhat true, at least for 1 million volts or so. I assume most lower transmissions are AC.

DC also takes away the need for syncing the systems.
 

CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
I think that is somewhat true, at least for 1 million volts or so. I assume most lower transmissions are AC.

DC also takes away the need for syncing the systems.

Furthermore, since then I?ve also read about Tesla?s experiments with wireless grids and power transmission, as well as ?DEATH RAY projects?. WOW!!! From fireside chats to death rays? How impressive is that for a resume?:jawdrop:
 

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Furthermore, since then I?ve also read about Tesla?s experiments with wireless grids and power transmission, as well as ?DEATH RAY projects?. WOW!!! From fireside chats to death rays? How impressive is that for a resume?:jawdrop:

Really, he was a one-in-a-billion. I mean, I can do some things ok, but this guy just seemed to think in another realm, and brought so many things to fruition.
 

CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
Really, he was a one-in-a-billion. I mean, I can do some things ok, but this guy just seemed to think in another realm, and brought so many things to fruition.

I agree 100%. I am hoping some of the guys like K8MHZ or JRAEF or WERESSL, gar, zog, infinity, etc.. THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...(VEERRY SMART) will clue me in as well in coming days. I REALLY want to understand this, since PV cells and so many other sources seem to generate DC, which we invert to AC, which seems to give the same end result... lights,etc. Why not "cut out the middle-man" so to speak? It seems like I could take the motor off my $9 walmart box-fan and attach an alternator from one of my 'junk cars' set it on my roof and generate 12VDC lighting... Maybe I been drinking the Colorado kool-aid to much... OR not enough... who knows. That's why I 'went for broke' and just plain asked out-right. May sound really ignorant, but that's why I'm here instead of youtube watching people get hit in the crotch with golf clubs... I just NEED to understand. Why invert, why transmit, why not just generate, store and consume when needed?:slaphead:
 

stevebea

Senior Member
Location
Southeastern PA
Between Mike Holt?s newsletter about knowledge and history, and Bob Johnson?s recent ?conundrum? I?ve decided to ask you guys about a few things. DISCLAIMER: I?ll say it up front, there aren?t many people I know personally that share my passionate interest in this subject, so I truly hope this is the proper place for this discussion. ALSO, I could never afford to attend any college (unless you count 8 years of 12B Combat Engineer training, which most people don?t) so forgive me if? no, WHEN--I am completely in the dark about things. That said, here we go:


WHY IS IT AGAIN, THAT OUR HOMES ARE POWERED WITH AC, INSTEAD OF DC???

I recently watched a DVD that I'm sure you would enjoy, Tesla; Master of Lightning. The DVD goes into the struggle between Tesla and George Westinghouse advocating AC power vs. Edison and GE advocating DC power. I was so intrigued by the DVD I went out and bought the book, Prodigal Genius: The Life of Nikola Tesla to read on vacation. Tesla was an amazing brilliant man.
 

stevebea

Senior Member
Location
Southeastern PA
Furthermore, since then I?ve also read about Tesla?s experiments with wireless grids and power transmission, as well as ?DEATH RAY projects?. WOW!!! From fireside chats to death rays? How impressive is that for a resume?:jawdrop:

Tesla went to his death bed truely believing that he would find a way to transmit AC power wirelessly. In this regard he reached too high but I am in awe of this man, he was way before his time!
 

Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
since PV cells and so many other sources seem to generate DC, which we invert to AC, which seems to give the same end result... lights,etc. $9 walmart box-fan and attach an alternator from one of my 'junk cars' set it on my roof and generate 12VDC lighting...

Although PV etc produce DC, the hulk of our electricity comes from generators which naturally produce AC. Same with the alternator in your car. It is basically a 3 phase AC generator that get's rectified to DC.
 

CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
Although PV etc produce DC, the hulk of our electricity comes from generators which naturally produce AC. Same with the alternator in your car. It is basically a 3 phase AC generator that get's rectified to DC.

Demonstration of ignorance i guess... I've rebuilt alternators over the years, knowing full-well that they had a diode-trio and bridge rectifier, which needed to be tested/replaced... but still thinking of it as a "DC generator". WRONG:happysad: again, that's why I'm here. You guys could charge people for your knowledge, but you choose to give it... for that, I and many others are truly grateful. BTW, I?m writing down ALL these book and DVD titles?really hope I can find them somewhere. SUPER interesting to me? Guess I?m a geek?
:lol:
 

stevebea

Senior Member
Location
Southeastern PA
Demonstration of ignorance i guess... I've rebuilt alternators over the years, knowing full-well that they had a diode-trio and bridge rectifier, which needed to be tested/replaced... but still thinking of it as a "DC generator". WRONG:happysad: again, that's why I'm here. You guys could charge people for your knowledge, but you choose to give it... for that, I and many others are truly grateful. BTW, I?m writing down ALL these book and DVD titles?really hope I can find them somewhere. SUPER interesting to me? Guess I?m a geek?
:lol:

The DVD Tesla; Master of Lightning is available through Netflix.
 

CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
Most of my discombobulating feelings about the whole mess can be attributed to the fact that, while Tesla and Westinghouse ultimately ?won?, I might never have even heard of him if it weren?t for a ?big hair band? taking his name? Meanwhile Edison got TONS of recognition (household name) for a piece of charred thread he called a filament? We power our houses and live our lives in accordance to the works and discoveries of a handful of people. Some are recognized, others (avoiding the spotlight) seem to get lost in time. In retrospect, even though I have WAY more respect for Tesla? it ALMOST seems like Edison and GE got it right. DC kinda seems safer (maybe not?), easier, and more convenient? On a side note: clay pots have been found in Mesopotamia, and have zinc and copper ?taps? molded into them, as if they were filled with lemon juice or something, to be the first known ?batteries?. Also, Solomon?s temple was said to have lightening protection built in? SO having said that, I think Ben Franklin may have just been the world?s biggest ?butt-kisser? and took credit for anything he could, (probably would?ve patented discovering AIR if he could?ve gotten away with it) despicable IMHO. I actually (but, for all his contributions) started viewing Edison the same way--- stealing ideas, and climbing to the shoulders of TRUE giants, in order to shout his own name? SAD... :thumbsdown:
 

stevebea

Senior Member
Location
Southeastern PA
Most of my discombobulating feelings about the whole mess can be attributed to the fact that, while Tesla and Westinghouse ultimately ?won?, I might never have even heard of him if it weren?t for a ?big hair band? taking his name? Meanwhile Edison got TONS of recognition (household name) for a piece of charred thread he called a filament? We power our houses and live our lives in accordance to the works and discoveries of a handful of people. Some are recognized, others (avoiding the spotlight) seem to get lost in time. In retrospect, even though I have WAY more respect for Tesla? it ALMOST seems like Edison and GE got it right. DC kinda seems safer (maybe not?), easier, and more convenient? On a side note: clay pots have been found in Mesopotamia, and have zinc and copper ?taps? molded into them, as if they were filled with lemon juice or something, to be the first known ?batteries?. Also, Solomon?s temple was said to have lightening protection built in? SO having said that, I think Ben Franklin may have just been the world?s biggest ?butt-kisser? and took credit for anything he could, (probably would?ve patented discovering AIR if he could?ve gotten away with it) despicable IMHO. I actually (but, for all his contributions) started viewing Edison the same way--- stealing ideas, and climbing to the shoulders of TRUE giants, in order to shout his own name? SAD... :thumbsdown:

I totally agree with you, I have much more respect for Tesla than Edison or Franklin! First and foremost Tesla wanted to improve the quality of people's lives. He did not protect his financial interests and died penniless because of it. Others profited from Tesla's research because he was a researcher not a businessman.
 

CONTROL FREQ

Member
Location
OHIO
I totally agree with you, I have much more respect for Tesla than Edison or Franklin! First and foremost Tesla wanted to improve the quality of people's lives. He did not protect his financial interests and died penniless because of it. Others profited from Tesla's research because he was a researcher not a businessman.

I know right? Kinda like the 'Edgar Allen Poe' Of the electrical world... a pauper's grave, for a true genius (and gift to mankind)... No shiz, everytime I microwave something, I think to myself... "what if 1 guy's mom, decided to go out that night, instead of staying home with his dad?" I'd probably be warming it up over a pot in my fireplace. As was said by Brett, we stand TALL on the shoulders of giants... I was intrigued that Mike Holt?s newsletter about all these great men did not include Einstein. Energy--- of any kind or derivation seemed to be his ?specialty?. Maybe ALL my ideas are wrong? Maybe I just don?t get it. But unless I ask, I might never know.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I'm a big Tesla fan. My interest was piqued when someone gave me the book Tesla: Man Out of Time by Margaret Cheney. It goes more into his personal life and relationships than some of the others and although it exposes his warts, it also shows that his humanity was at least consistent throughout his life.

I also read a number of books on Edison and I think sometimes we all have a tendency to want to form clear lines between good and bad. Edison was neither in my opinion, but what people often criticize him for is, in reality, just good common business sense. FOR THE TIMES, Tesla's lofty humanitarian goals were unrealistic. Nobody was going to invest in the infrastructure required to electrify the world without being able to be compensated for it. In fact once the money people like JP Morgan figured out what he was up to, they cut him off at the knees. That was what was driving him to keep going with his ideal of wireless power transmission long after he proved it impractical; he wanted to thwart the moneyed gentry. He was the epitome of altruism and should be lauded for it, but that is not how the world works.

Edison knew this from the start. His DC plans would have provided for slow growth through profitable enterprise of building small DC power plants wherever people could afford it. HIS small DC power plants. Ultimately SOMEONE would have discovered AC and done him in anyway, so in a way Tesla did us all a favor by doing it early on and eventually making electrical power available to far flung places. But Edison was not inherently evil or greedy, just protective of his own plan. We ALL are like that at some level.
 

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
WHY IS IT AGAIN, THAT OUR HOMES ARE POWERED WITH AC, INSTEAD OF DC???
You've good answers, but IMO 95% is transformers, 4% is zero crossing, and 1% is magic. I'm making the numbers up.

We can transmit with less loss at lower current, thus with constant power, higher voltage; transformer. We can break a circuit with less ... excitement ... when the arc is (sorta) self quenching; zero crossing.

It's been recently that inverters have become, in "moderate" sizes, cost effective. They still are rarely in the MW range. A typical generator is over 100MW, some over 1GW.
 
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