Autostart timer for a portable generator

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ResiMan

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I've spent hours trying to find out how, or even to find someone else that knows how put a timer on a portable generator to get it to start and run for 4 hours when no one is around. No one, that is, except for 1,500 chickens.

My customer has a coop with no power available within acres. He needs his chickens to have light for 14+ hours of the day through the winter. He has an electric start generator that he'd like to have start up and run some lights at 4:00 a.m.

So far I found a TECO SG2 V3 (don't know if I can post the site on this forum). It may be overkill, but I've found no other leads. The site where I found it had an article by a guy who set the timer up to run a generator for some parking lot lights.

When I contacted the distributor, they said it had to programmed using ladder program logic. I said, "Who does that?" He said, "Get an electrician." I said,"I am the electrician!"

Since then, I have found no one who knows how to do this. I've contacted the generator manufacturer, and scads of other resources, but I'm coming up blank. Meanwhile, the poultry farm is losing eggs by the day.

Any suggestions? Thanks much!
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I take it that needing the generator means there is no AC power out there, so if you plan to use that Teco smart relay, hopefully you bought one that is powered by 12VDC.

But if you don't know ladder diagrams, then it's kind of a moot point anyway. There is a version of that type of smart relay, except made by Siemens instead of Teco, that is sold by a 3rd party pre-programmed as a "generator exerciser". All you do is hit Escape for a few seconds, enter the time cycles with the built-in keypad, hit Enter and it's done. To a search for a "2171 generator exerciser", should cost you about $195, which is twice as much as the hardware alone, but like I said, it comes pre-programmed (other than the time value you want).

I think another way might be to either buy a 12VDC time clock, like a sprinkler timer or even a lamp timer for an RV. But be aware that the contacts on these things cannot be connected directly to the engine starter, they have to be connected to the Ignition Switch, which connects to the starter. Think of the timer as just replacing the key or the Start button.
 

ResiMan

Member
Thanks for the response Jraef. After talking to a distributor of the exerciser I am told that it won't work on a portable generator. Still checking on the 12v dc timer. Does the timer have to be able to activate a start cycle that is different from the run cycle? Also, there is a manual choke on the generator. Is that going to be an issue?
 

ATSman

ATSman
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Occupation
Electrical Engineer/ Electrical Testing & Controls
Grasslin

Grasslin

Thanks for the response Jraef. After talking to a distributor of the exerciser I am told that it won't work on a portable generator. Still checking on the 12v dc timer. Does the timer have to be able to activate a start cycle that is different from the run cycle? Also, there is a manual choke on the generator. Is that going to be an issue?

Check out:
http://oilstoves.co.uk/webdocs/tech...rasslin_Time_Clock_Operating_Instructions.pdf

http://www.grasslin-controls.co.uk/assets/graphics/static/SB-Digi+.pdf

I use this one made by Grasslin (Google it) that is fairly easy to program on the front buttons. The link shows one with 24VDC control power but they may make one for 12VDC.
good luck

TT
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Manual choke?

Anything that requires "Manuel" intervention, will require a Manuel to be there. So yes, that will be a problem.

I'm with Jraef on this one, if it does not have an "Auto" position, then you will also need some means of controlling the starter by disconnecting it once the engine starts, along with an automatic choke. Also is this a pretty small chicken house? The ones around here use around 10-20 kw worth of lamps, unless they have been retrofitted with compact floresents. A generator that big should be capable of automatic start? Or is it tractor powered?
 

hurk27

Senior Member
What you need to check into is to see if you could trade that manual generator in on a automatic transfer switch capable generator, any generator that will operate from a automatic transfer switch will accept a dry contact start/run mode from a simple timer, many Generac will do this, and there are some portable ones that have this feature, and then all you need is a timer like this: thay make them to operate on battery also:

http://www.borggeneral.com/digital-timer-series8842.html

The complication of trying to automatically start a motor reliably is one, you have to have a cut off signal from the motor to turn off the starter when the motor has started, two if it doesn't start the first time what will retry the starter? a keyless remote car starter system can do some of these things but will limit the run time to a preset time like 15min., but its not fool proof, if you have no feed back to tell it to stop running the starter, it can damage the starter, some use oil switch feed back, or alternator voltage rise, while others just take a chance and use a timer that will run the starter for a given amount of time, but that is the worst and most damaging, all the generators that can auto start off a signal from a ATS have these functions and more, not only does it have the feed back to let the system know that the motor is running on it's own, it has low oil shut down, over/under/voltage/overload speed protection, and if the motor fails to start on the first try it will try 2 more times and stop before it just runs down the battery or burns up the starter. most of these type generators can be ordered to run from any fuel you wish to use, very common with natural gas or propane, but diesel is also very close second.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
So far I found a TECO SG2 V3 (don't know if I can post the site on this forum). It may be overkill, but I've found no other leads. The site where I found it had an article by a guy who set the timer up to run a generator for some parking lot lights.
Thanks much!

This PLR will only work on a generator with an auto start contacts like I posted above, the timer I posted a link to will do the same thing for about $60.00, talk about an over kill:roll: your still going to need a generator with auto start terminals, like I said, any generator that will auto start from a transfer switch will also start and run from a timer.

Heres the link to the TECO SG2 V3 used as an auto start timer:
http://electricalscholar.com/controls/control-plc/the-teco-sg2-plr-as-a-generator-autostart-timer/

The timer I posted will not only run from a 12 volt DC source but also has a 5 year back up battery in it.
 
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topgone

Senior Member
I don't know if works the same way but in a project I was involved with, the 2MVA emergency diesel power house designed to operate unsupervised gets to start on "no voltage" relay contact routed to the starting circuitry of the engine. The engine has two alternate DC starter motors and alternates starting duty on every "start" command from the "no voltage" relay (there is a flip-flop relay handling the alternate starting). If one starter motor fails to start the engine, the logic decides to use the other starter motor (cycling) until the sensor sees the engine rpm indicating a successful start. The ATS then pulls-over to the emergency generator output until the "no voltage" relay sees the normal utility source, where the ATS nudges the engine's speed to synchronize back to the normal source. Once tuned to the normal source, the utility incoming breaker switches back and the emergency generator breaker drops out. Engine is allowed to run until all temp sensors indicate temperatures safe enough for shutdown.

In your case, I guess a 24-hr mechanical timer contact can replace the "no voltage" relay contact the same way. You can set these timers to close contacts at designated hours of the day as you wanted.

Hope this helps.
 
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