BullsnPyrs
Senior Member
- Location
- Saint Joe, Arkansas
it's rather like a baseball team aspiring for second place. (Then again, there are the Chicago Cubs!)
Do you really think they aim that high? (says the Marlins fan)
it's rather like a baseball team aspiring for second place. (Then again, there are the Chicago Cubs!)
My heart bleeds - but when we start making decisions based upon emotions, all is lost.
There is not now, nor will there ever be, anything that cannot be somehow made better. There are also the unintended consequences ... such as when we add a wheelchair ramp to help one, while creating a trip / fall hazard for the blind guy.
I'll bet that 1960 house had a phone jack. Amazing, isn't it ... no one needed a code to tell them that they wanted a phone jack. Ditto for storm windows and door locks.
Then again, kids rode bikes witout helmets, schools had marksmanship competitions, and cars lacked seat belts. It's rather amazing that anyone survived childhood at all!
These days, folks brag about living in 'gated communities,' where they are told what color to paint their house, what their yard must look like, and even what mailbox to hang. Maybe there are folks who feel a need to have their every action determined by a rulebook, but I'm not one of them.
The issue is not "what" is required, but rather one of "who" makes the decision. There are plenty of workers' paradises and religious theocracies where everything is determined by the AHJ ... but such is directly contrary to the model upon which we based our society. I am stumped by those whose ideal imitates less successful models ... it's rather like a baseball team aspiring for second place. (Then again, there are the Chicago Cubs!)
"The issue is not "what" is required, but rather one of "who" makes the decision"
There is no decision to be made! The Insurance Companies and their underwriting departments access the risk they take to insure your property, to pay out the replacement of your home or business, they are the ones that require codes and standards, not the government, the government agencies only operate to make sure their communities are rated with the best rating, by operating inspections, to insure their city and property owners can obtain insurance at affordable rates, can imagine what the rates would be, without codes and standards, the picture of the man on the pole trying to tap in the power line is not a joke, or a photo edit job, it is real world conditions in some countries, where there is no government, no codes, and no standards, and their living conditions are usually not the best, so I guess what my point is, if you want to live in a society with no rule or order, then best you move there to enjoy the horror of living there, when ever I come back home from a trip to the places without codes and order, I always have a warm feeling, about our standard and our why of living, even with all the laws and rules, bless to old us!
I'll bet that 1960 house had a phone jack. Amazing, isn't it ... no one needed a code to tell them that they wanted a phone jack.
I say that AFI breakers are very costly & have yet to be proven on safety. How many house fires have you seen that an AFI would have prevented? I say that smoke detectors are a great thing, I push them as hard as I can. But if a customer can only afford a certain amount of wiring, that little bit will get him safer than he is. Big Brother says that's not good enough. He has to get to level 10. Not good enough to go from a 2 to 5 or 5 to 7. If he can't pay for a level 10 job he stays at his current level.
Is that the general rule or does it just apply to certain things - like AFCI.
I find it very hard to believe you can go into a home built in 1930's and are allowed to install new wiring to 1930's standards. I will believe that you could maintain the existing 1930's wiring to its original standards. And that is just according to electrical codes. Other codes may make you replace items that are not up to some of more recent standards, like lampholders and fuseholders or safety switches with exposed live components.
There are 1,348,500 fires in the United States per year.
3000 of those result in death.
17,050 result in injuries.
That's a fire every 87 seconds!
$12.5 Billion in damages.
The state of Vermont has data collected since they began enforcing the AFCI requirement on 01 january 2002.
Their data reflects a 36% decrease in electrical fires.
Then again, kids rode bikes witout helmets, schools had marksmanship competitions, and cars lacked seat belts. It's rather amazing that anyone survived childhood at all!
So what do you do about those who use lack of regulation as license to pillage the rest of us who want to play nice? In an unregulated society, when you decide to be a nice guy you immediately put yourself at the mercy of those who have not made that decision.Sorry, K8 ... I was there. Phones in 1960 plugged into large 4-pin jacks.
"Cordless drills" were made by Stanley, and "cordless screwdrivers" said "Yankee." Larger holes were made with a brace & bit.
As for the "if you don't like it, move ..." cant .... well, this place was specifically set up on a 'limited government' model, in contrast to all the other places where the law was whatever the Kings and Bishops decided it was. I would say to those who espouse regulation that THEY are the interlopers, and should free to leave this great experiment in Freedom for the workers' paradise of their choice.
An inspector friend reminded me that I could save a little on this by using battery powered smoke detectors. Only have to use wired/interconnected if opening up walls & ceilings. I had forgotten that detail. I called customer & offered some $ off for that & some off if he helped with the work. He said he would think it over. I'm sure he's getting other quotes & will find someone who will cut corners & do it still cheaper.
You are wasting too much time with this bid. The customer doesn't want it done right, or doesn't want to pay for it to be done right. In the end, they will find something to complain about and not pay the full amount anyway.
That was the part of doing service work i didnt like.You do a job and they had a idea how much it was going to cost .Hand them the bill was told thats to much or what took so long .some people are looking for some thing for nothing. They end up calling the shop and complaining they would take a few dollars off and every thing was fine..
this isn't a problem when you flat rate price them.
NOBODY likes time and material.
nobody.
That keeps them from being suprised at the bill after work is done.
Some will still think you are ripping them off when you give them a price before work is done.
and they can call someone else.
i explain that i bring over 30 years experience to what i do,
and i treat their facility or home like it is my own.
there are people for whom that is not important, and for them,
we have craigslist.
i have a customer, who i gave a price to for mounting a very expensive
light fixture on the side of a building, who wanted to know if they could
source the light fixture themselves to save money.
i said, of course, and took the light fixture cost off the bid. the damn
thing was so expensive that i had no markup on it anyway... and now
i don't have any issues with "the powder coat doesn't EXACTLY match
the other lights" drama.
gave them the name of my inside salesman, so they could go to my
wholesale house and everything.
turns out, the price to them is going to be about $600 more for the
fixture than i was going to charge.
i'd of eaten it, if they didn't throw themselves on the grenade for me.
i have good customers. they save me from the consequences of my
actions.