Maestro Dimmers tripping Arc-Faults

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dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
I have been having a problem with Maestro dimmers tripping arch faults. I have also had an issue with one that tripped an electricronic motor on a fan. Anybody have any ideas?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Usually it is the fan that is the problem. I have not heard about maestro's being a problem however if it is I would call Lutron and talk with their tech support.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
I have been having a problem with Maestro dimmers tripping arch faults. I have also had an issue with one that tripped an electronic motor on a fan. Anybody have any ideas?
I don't have any experience directly related to either but, I have had problems with electronics in power tools tripping arc faults so I could see the possibility.
 

highvolts582

Senior Member
Location
brick nj
maestro

maestro

I had a maestro fan/light control dimmer not work because there was a dimmer built into the fans light circuitry. To help with energy savings, it would only pump out 40 watts per socket. So, when it sits Idle the maestro will not turn on without a resistive load. Try explaining that to the customer. (its annoying). Need other dimmer or other fan. Thanks Lowes for carrying crappy fans and all there fan/lights have small candle base sockets. I hate those bulbs unless they are in a chandelier. Looking for a cheap decent fan go to depot.

My best guesses. Maybe you dropped a piece of copper stripping into the motor when you clipped it off to make a better strip when you were wiring the fan. I hate when stuff falls in there. This could happen. Or someone tied the grounded conductors together from separate circuits in a switch box nearby. Keep em separate.
 
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dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
As far as the dimmers go, I had the lighting cir running with no dimmers for abput a month now. I installed the dimmers on Friday and I get an email that the lights went out and tripped the breaker.

And the fan was not on a maestro. It was an electronic fade on fade off light on the fan. 9 months after I finished the job I get a call back that the breaker keeps tripping. Its now right away, its 30 seconds into turning the light turns on.

I was just wondering if electronic loads effect the arch faults
 

dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
There are multiple dimmers on multiple lights. They are 600watt dimmers. Def not 600watt loads on each dimmer, and def not overloading the cir.
 

svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
There are multiple dimmers on multiple lights. They are 600watt dimmers. Def not 600watt loads on each dimmer, and def not overloading the cir.

Take out bulbs until the load is limited to roughly 1000w or less. Where is this located, or, does it need to be on an afci protected circuit?

Fwiw, I wasn't implying you were over loading the circuit. Lutron and Leviton have stated before that dimming modules with a load greater than 1000w would cause an afci to trip. Three dimmers at 400 watts each on the same afci protected circuit would theoretically trip.
 

dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
GREAT NEWS!!!!!!! Do you know off hand where I can find that info so I can show the inspector? And yes the lights are in the living rm and dining rm area.
And yes the load is over 1000watts
 

svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
GREAT NEWS!!!!!!! Do you know off hand where I can find that info so I can show the inspector? And yes the lights are in the living rm and dining rm area.
And yes the load is over 1000watts

You can call Lutron, but really, it's still an issue and doesn't solve anything. The inspector still reserves the right to fail if you don't have afci protection. You can try a different afci OR dimmer brand (pands) and see if it works or not.

However, how have you tested the afci? Dd you try leaving all switches off and applying a different load? Or is the fan/lighting the only load you have applied?
 
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mltech

Senior Member
Location
Ft. Lauderdale
Afci's and Lutron

Afci's and Lutron

Lutron documentation will show you that any loads protected by Afci can not exceed 1000 watts on that circuit if dimmers are installed.
copied and pasted from Lutron Documentation.

? According to the UL standard, AFCI breakers are only required to be rated to handle 1000W of dimming load.
? According to the NEC, AFCI breakers are required for all bedroom lighting circuits.
? Lighting layout must be planned so that enough modules are allocated for bedroom lighting with a maximum of 1000W of dimming load.
Why can AFCIs only have 1000 Watts of dimmable lighting load connected?
Breakers of all types are Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Listed before being sold. To become UL Listed, one of the testing criteria states that an AFCI will not trip when less than 1000 W of dimmed tungsten lighting is connected (UL File 1699, Section 41.3.1, Subsection C). According to these testing require- ments set by UL, it is permissible for an AFCI to trip with greater than 1000 W of dimmed tungsten light- ing load. Remember that the goal of the AFCI is to try to detect arcs and disconnect the circuit. As such, the design goal is to meet the 1000 W of dimming requirement, but to not set the trip threshold any higher than is necessary. Lutron?s testing has concluded that the margin above a 1000 W of dimming is very small and that it should not be exceeded. Therefore, to avoid false tripping on dimming circuits that are fed by an AFCI, the maximum connected dimmable lighting load should NOT exceed 1000 W.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Wholly crap! Are you kidding. No more than 1000 watts.
If this is true than no more 20amp circuits in those locations and looks like more circuits. :rant:
 

svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
Wholly crap! Are you kidding. No more than 1000 watts.
If this is true than no more 20amp circuits in those locations and looks like more circuits. :rant:

This is actually a known issue since 2002, unfortunately there are just no longer lighting exceptions in the NEC for given areas and afci protection.
 

mltech

Senior Member
Location
Ft. Lauderdale
Yep

Yep

Wholly crap! Are you kidding. No more than 1000 watts.
If this is true than no more 20amp circuits in those locations and looks like more circuits. :rant:

Thats how its been ever since afci were required. you need to effectively double your circuits for them. Unless of course you are using LED fixtures which brings you back in to balance so to speak.
Less wattage per fixture = more fixtures controlled = less afci breakers.
seem ridiculous if a circuit is rated 1920 watts and you can't use have of it cause of afci's? Not fun but challenging none the less. Definitely increases cost some.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
So was this ever brought up at Mike holt forums before?

I do not remember any threads.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I have done a bit of research on this 1000 watt dimming max and AFCI.

What I found bothers me. There was a OP who had post that claimed this 1000 watt max dimming. There were comments by a moderator looking for substantiation. No further posts were made, no answers , no substatiantion.
That thread was closed for unknown reasons.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=129646&highlight=AFCI+100+watt+dimming++max


My question is why such and important AFCI issue and troubleshooting method has not been discussed more and in my opinion quashed.

Hey Mike Holt ever wrote a document here and posted by someone on another site:
http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/afci-questions-and-answers-mike-holt-5914/

It appears that in 2010 George Stolz did not even know!!!!!!!!!

Fortunatley I have not ever exceeded 1000w dimmed on a AFCI circuit in the past to the best of my recllection. I however are learned now! I've been schooled!
 

svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
So was this ever brought up at Mike holt forums before?

I do not remember any threads.

Yes, it was brought up years ago.

However, most townships/cities/municipalities are a couple years behind on adopting new code. So now that most places have adopted 2008 NEC, it is now a NOTICEABLE problem. If you were still on the 2005 cycle, then it wasn't usually an issue because very few bedrooms required dimming greater than 1000w. Since AFCI protection now (2008 NEC...and 2011) includes living/dining rooms, this will be an issue, however rare.
 
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svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
Fortunatley I have not ever exceeded 1000w dimmed on a AFCI circuit in the past to the best of my recllection. I however are learned now! I've been schooled!

I do a lot of lighting, and while the kitchen commonly exceeds 1000w for lighting, very few other rooms require 1000w of light. I have done sconces and recessed lights in large living rooms, and the dimming load still hasn't been that high. In a dining room, you can get up to 6 recessed lights (usually limited to 50w/per so 300w), 2 sconces at 60w per, and a nice chandelier that has 10 40w bulbs. That's still under the 1000w, and that's a lot of light in a dining room. It will be a rare occurrence that you actually need that amount of light outside of the kitchen...IN MY OPINION and experience.

However, I do not know the particular application that the OP is having a problem with. Another option is to just change to slightly lesser bulbs.
 
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