inspector requireing neutral between two services

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Someone I know is constructing a garage and undergrounding the service at the same time.

The utility is allowing him to put the meter on a secondary pedestal and run a service to his house and a service to his garage both from the pedestal with separate disconnects and panels at house and garage.

the inspector rejected his installation. saying that per 250.32B and 215.6 a 4-wire service is required to a detached garage and required him to run a neutral from his house to his garage.

I know the code allows you to reground a neutral at a separate building with a grounding electrode system, but this seems ridiculous to me since it is a separate service.
.
has anyone experienced this before?

Thanks
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Someone I know is constructing a garage and undergrounding the service at the same time.

The utility is allowing him to put the meter on a secondary pedestal and run a service to his house and a service to his garage both from the pedestal with separate disconnects and panels at house and garage.

the inspector rejected his installation. saying that per 250.32B and 215.6 a 4-wire service is required to a detached garage and required him to run a neutral from his house to his garage.

I know the code allows you to reground a neutral at a separate building with a grounding electrode system, but this seems ridiculous to me since it is a separate service.
.
has anyone experienced this before?

Thanks

Whether or not an equipment grounding conductor is needed can be debatable. Before 2008 NEC it was not required but was not prohibited. It all will depend on if the pedestal is considered the service disconnect. If there is overcurrent protection at the pedestal it very well could be considered the service disconnect. If there is not overcurrent protection there then the conductors at both of the two buildings are still service conductors.

I see no value in running a neutral conductor between the house and garage. I would ask him for a code reference of where it states this must be done. They are separate buildings and there is no dependency of one on the other in this installation. They come together at one meter and that is all they have in common.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Someone I know is constructing a garage and undergrounding the service at the same time.

The utility is allowing him to put the meter on a secondary pedestal and run a service to his house and a service to his garage both from the pedestal with separate disconnects and panels at house and garage.

the inspector rejected his installation. saying that per 250.32B and 215.6 a 4-wire service is required to a detached garage and required him to run a neutral from his house to his garage.

I know the code allows you to reground a neutral at a separate building with a grounding electrode system, but this seems ridiculous to me since it is a separate service.
.
has anyone experienced this before?

Thanks

Well, the inspector is right and wrong. If the service is now out at the pedestal, the conductors to the house and garage are now feeders and must have an EGC (the old methods are no longer allowed). But his remedy, if I understand correctly, is completley unacceptable.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Well, the inspector is right and wrong. If the service is now out at the pedestal, the conductors to the house and garage are now feeders .

I think there is only a meter at the pedestal, that makes the conductors to each building service conductors not feeders.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
But is still incorrect on the need for a neutral between the house and garage.
I agree, and in fact if you did it you would be creating a current loop nightmare.

Roger
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
But is still incorrect on the need for a neutral between the house and garage.

I think you are placing the cart before the horse.

Had it been a pair of feeders I am sure the OP would have had four wire feeders and the subject would not have come up.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I think you are placing the cart before the horse.

Had it been a pair of feeders I am sure the OP would have had four wire feeders and the subject would not have come up.

I don't know.. why would the subject come up either way - I don't know of any situation where this conductor he is asking for would be required.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
I assumed that the OP meant he had the disconnects at the pedestal. If not, of course they are service conductors, not feeders. But the seperate neutral between the 2 buildings?
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I don't know how they do stuff outside Calif. but here the POCO would require disco and overcurent at the pedastal and thus those conductors would be feeders.
 

pete m.

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
the inspector rejected his installation. saying that per 250.32B and 215.6 a 4-wire service is required to a detached garage and required him to run a neutral from his house to his garage.

So the inspector wants to have a violation created where, previously, none existed? I suppose he/she forgot about 300.3(B).

has anyone experienced this before?

I'm sure we all have... I make mistakes quite often.

Pete
 

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
Could it be that the inspector wants an equipment ground between the buildings because they may be running phone and CATV between the buildings?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Could it be that the inspector wants an equipment ground between the buildings because they may be running phone and CATV between the buildings?

Won't really do much to keep current off those communications cables. Besides the buildings both have neutral run to them from same point already.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Could it be that the inspector wants an equipment ground between the buildings because they may be running phone and CATV between the buildings?

They are tied together at the disconnect. I don't see what he wants- certainly 4 wires if they are feeders.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
And this is the bad thing the OP hasn't been back to clarify any thing. He says the inspector shot him down with 215.6 which is for feeders and it leads you to 250.32(B). So if there is an OCD with the meter then the inspector is correct. If there is no OCP then the inspector is wrong. But there are some things to wonder about.

Someone I know is constructing a garage and undergrounding the service at the same time.

Could be the same as "I have a friend........." and also

required him to run a neutral from his house to his garage

If there were 3 wires ran to the garage wouldn't 1 of those be the neutral?
 
Thank you all

Thank you all

I make mistakes too. But I investigate, then own up to them.

But these inspectors in Colorado are pretty hard headed. I've had a member here save my ass one time for about $15,000. the inspector, obviously wrong, said well we will let it go just this one time

This one was my brother. He is an EE too. he does everything else, but this. his electrician already installed it, I knew it was wrong, it doesn't make electrical sense, and it is not even code relevant.


I told him it probably caused more problems than it solved. He was more concerned about his electricians self respect. he took it harder than my brother did



I thank you all again for your responses.


being able to quote the code is far more dangerous than understanding electricity. I know someone here has that as their stamp but I quote it almost every day



QUOTE=pete m.;1369759]So the inspector wants to have a violation created where, previously, none existed? I suppose he/she forgot about 300.3(B).



I'm sure we all have... I make mistakes quite often.

Pete[/QUOTE]
 
there are two disonnects at the pedestal
.
Whether or not an equipment grounding conductor is needed can be debatable. Before 2008 NEC it was not required but was not prohibited. It all will depend on if the pedestal is considered the service disconnect. If there is overcurrent protection at the pedestal it very well could be considered the service disconnect. If there is not overcurrent protection there then the conductors at both of the two buildings are still service conductors.

I see no value in running a neutral conductor between the house and garage. I would ask him for a code reference of where it states this must be done. They are separate buildings and there is no dependency of one on the other in this installation. They come together at one meter and that is all they have in common.
 
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