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Thread: Boat lift question

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Most of us know you do not have to have a load side neutral for it to work. What golddigger and myself have been debating is whether or not you must have the supply side neutral connected in order for it to work.

    I have always thought you must have supply side neutral or it will not work properly, but it has been suggested you may not need it, but has not been proven either.
    I'm pretty sure the pigtail has to land on the neutral bus (actually 100% sure). I think any imbalance or leak will go through the neutral and the GFCI will since an imbalance and trip. I'm fairly certain if you don't connect the pigtail to the neutral bus the GFCI will never close. Kind of like when you have the line/load reversed on a GFCI receptacle.

    from a spa spec sheet

    Providing Therapy for Life
    15
    For help, please call
    877-722-4097
    From Main Power Supply to GFCI
    From GFCI to Spa Controls
    Important!!
    The white neutral wire from the back
    of the GFCI
    MUST
    be connected to
    an incoming service neutral. The
    GFCI will not work without it. If the
    incoming white neutral wire is not
    properly connected, the GFCI will
    automatically trip. If the GFCI trips
    when you power on the spa, you
    should make sure the neutral wire is
    properly connected
    Last edited by Little Bill; 07-08-13 at 01:06 AM.
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Bill View Post
    I'm pretty sure the pigtail has to land on the neutral bus (actually 100% sure). I think any imbalance or leak will go through the neutral and the GFCI will since an imbalance and trip. I'm fairly certain if you don't connect the pigtail to the neutral bus the GFCI will never close. Kind of like when you have the line/load reversed on a GFCI receptacle.
    Imbalance does not have to have the neutral in order to happen. Any current that leaves the GFCI but does not come back to the GFCI via one of the protected conductors is the imbalance the device is looking for in order to cause it to trip. This alternate path for imbalance can be anything. The question is whether or not the neutral as well as both "hot conductors" on a double pole unit is necessary to power the logic component that analyzes the current balance and operates the trip mechanism?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Imbalance does not have to have the neutral in order to happen. Any current that leaves the GFCI but does not come back to the GFCI via one of the protected conductors is the imbalance the device is looking for in order to cause it to trip. This alternate path for imbalance can be anything. The question is whether or not the neutral as well as both "hot conductors" on a double pole unit is necessary to power the logic component that analyzes the current balance and operates the trip mechanism?
    See my edited post!
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Bill View Post
    See my edited post!
    No fair making changes after someone comments

    What kind of GFCI device is being referred to in that material?

    I kind of always assumed that the supply side neutral is required for the device to function properly. Not certain that your average GFCI circuit breaker will trip with no supply neutral though. Remember it is monitoring L1, L2, and N. Loss of incoming L1, L2, or N is not a ground fault, so the device may not need to be designed to detect presence of those. However specific units may be designed to check for presence of all three of those, like a unit designed specifically for a spa, or for protective devices that are a part of portable cord and plug equipment, the risk of loss of a conductor is not as great with a hard wired device as it is for a cord and plug supplied device.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    No fair making changes after someone comments

    What kind of GFCI device is being referred to in that material?

    I kind of always assumed that the supply side neutral is required for the device to function properly. Not certain that your average GFCI circuit breaker will trip with no supply neutral though. Remember it is monitoring L1, L2, and N. Loss of incoming L1, L2, or N is not a ground fault, so the device may not need to be designed to detect presence of those. However specific units may be designed to check for presence of all three of those, like a unit designed specifically for a spa, or for protective devices that are a part of portable cord and plug equipment, the risk of loss of a conductor is not as great with a hard wired device as it is for a cord and plug supplied device.
    It is for a standard 2-pole 240V GFCI. You can buy spa disconnects with a 50A GFCI breaker in them, but the GFCI is not unique to the disconnect. It is the same as a stand alone GFCI. I know this because I was looking for a 50A GFCI for a C/H and couldn't find it locally at the time. I bought the disconnect and saw that the breaker was the same. Funny part is you can buy the disconnect with the breaker cheaper than you can buy just the breaker at some places.

    I just happened to be looking over the specs for a spa install I am doing this week and saw this thread.

    In one of the drawings, I saw the picture was from Sq D.
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

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