Neutral strap cut

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jumper

Senior Member
Pass, fail, fail but safe??? Opinions.

panel2.jpg
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I guess that's what you do when you forget to buy a ground bar??

Does homeline not have a way to remove that jumper and still bond one bar to the box? I use Siemens and you can remove the jumper and still bond the box through the lug.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Probably fail for stupidity, but safe.

Square D main lug panels come with a equipment ground bar - is is much faster and easier to install than what was done here. If the bar was lost a replacement cost same or even less than the add on lug that was installed on the EGC side in the photo.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I guess that's what you do when you forget to buy a ground bar??

Does homeline not have a way to remove that jumper and still bond one bar to the box? I use Siemens and you can remove the jumper and still bond the box through the lug.

The bond screw is in the bar - approximately center of can - right next to where it was cut in the photo.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Exactly.. we don't have a "code" for that, so I use "altering equipment" :D

I don't like the installation, but I also don't like "altering equipment" as a violation. Isn't putting a KO for a raceway or cable in the side of an enclosure, or adding a ground bar that is not in a manufacturers designed location, or making alternate mounting means, altering it? If I was an inspector I wouldn't like that install but would let it pass if I did not find a better reason to fail it.
 

jimport

Senior Member
Location
Outside Baltimore Maryland
Occupation
Master Electrician
I read the link you posted in the other forum and saw the opinions voiced there. While it has been altered and the link says not to I would not see the harm in letting it stay this way. The two are isolated and the ground buss is bonded to the can. Like you said, if an AHJ, I would accept this usage. It is not like the bar was replaced with a piece of unknown metal or capacity.
 

jumper

Senior Member
I read the link you posted in the other forum and saw the opinions voiced there. While it has been altered and the link says not to I would not see the harm in letting it stay this way. The two are isolated and the ground buss is bonded to the can. Like you said, if an AHJ, I would accept this usage. It is not like the bar was replaced with a piece of unknown metal or capacity.

Me too, if accepted by AHJ. 'Course JP will never accept it.
 

elohr46

Senior Member
Location
square one
shame on the manufacture for not making a panelboard that can be easily converted for use as a subpanel with out the use of a hacksaw.
 

svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
I don't recall the last time that I have seen a panel like that, but if that's the worst that you found, what exactly is the harm?

Fail but safe still requires redoing the entire panel, and replacing with a new one. Give him a heads up for next time and say that another inspector might not be so kind.

Why do you need a hacksaw?

All that is needed is the grounding bar kit and some basic skills to put it in without resorting to being a hack.

Adding a grand bar kit, deleting a strap, potato patoto.
 
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K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I don't recall the last time that I have seen a panel like that, but if that's the worst that you found, what exactly is the harm?

Fail but safe still requires redoing the entire panel, and replacing with a new one.



Adding a grand bar kit, deleting a strap, potato patoto.

I have to admit, I don't see the installation as being inherently un-safe, although it is a violation of 110.3(B) and maybe 110.12(B) and the first thing I thought when I looked at the pic was, 'Is this what happens when cousins marry?'

:D

To Edit: Also remember, that if an AHJ passes that, it may set a legal precedent that the department the AHJ works for would really rather not to have to deal with. I don't think any inspector in my area would allow that to pass, anyway.
 
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roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the manufacturer making this a possible violation so that the customer has to spend additional money for a ground bar kit. There are more than enough slots for every circuit to have its own neutral and EGC's so they should provide a way to separate the bars, I would pass it.

Roger
 

jumper

Senior Member
I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the manufacturer making this a possible violation so that the customer has to spend additional money for a ground bar kit. There are more than enough slots for every circuit to have its own neutral and EGC's so they should provide a way to separate the bars, I would pass it.

Roger

:) My thoughts exactly.
 

jimport

Senior Member
Location
Outside Baltimore Maryland
Occupation
Master Electrician
I will add that cutting the bar probably took longer than installing the auxillary bar that should have been installed. That is unless you forgot and did not have one on the truck.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the manufacturer making this a possible violation so that the customer has to spend additional money for a ground bar kit. There are more than enough slots for every circuit to have its own neutral and EGC's so they should provide a way to separate the bars.

Roger

I agree and that was why I was asking if there is another spot for the bonding screw. Not being able to remove the bonding strap because you lose the bonding screw location seems silly to me. Why can't they do it like Siemens does? Is it just to sell ground bar kits?!?!

It's already aluminum bussed, so this is just one more strike against Homeline.
 

mike7330

Senior Member
Location
North America
I would fail it. The UL listing has been changed. Why not take the piece of bar and tex screw it to the lower buss, so you can add some more breakers.Would that work? I have come across panels with the cross over bar gone and found the neutral bars falling out of the plastic holders
 
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