fire panels in garden complex

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mtnelectrical

Senior Member
Is there any code that limit the use of a panel per building? or one panel could be use for the whole complex with different zones for every building? The buildings are really small, 2 floors, 2 smoke heads and 3 heat det. per building, there are 7 building.
 

MichaelGP3

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco bay area
Occupation
Fire Alarm Technician
This would be kind of fun to engineer and program; it's often done like this, but I don't know New Jersey specific code requirements. You should be able to find out by contacting your local building permit and fire departments. Based on the distances involved and what your voltage drop calculations tell you, you may need to install one or more remote booster power supplies and batteries (for indicating devices) in locations accessible to service and inspection personnel. Will the system be monitored? Lots of considerations in your scenario. Whose product line(s) do you intend to use?

Save yourself and everyone who follows you headaches: use an addressable system for this project.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Is anyone still installing non addressable systems?

We don't except for the occasional FM 200 pre-action systems.

I just did a retro fit, it was conventional panels in each 4 unit condex building. Addressable system covered the property as a whole. Each building has two modules, one alarm, one trouble. It was one giant addressable system before, with one NAC booster for four buildings. FD deemed it an issue, if the main panel was down (it was again for the third time in a year) the whole place was unprotected. Edwards fireworx 3 zone panels (cheap!) only one zone for all the pulls/heats, the other two were sprinkler alarm and tamper. 28 panels in all.

Other than that no, I abhor conventional systems :)
 

MichaelGP3

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco bay area
Occupation
Fire Alarm Technician
I just did a retro fit, it was conventional panels in each 4 unit condex building. Addressable system covered the property as a whole. Each building has two modules, one alarm, one trouble. It was one giant addressable system before, with one NAC booster for four buildings. FD deemed it an issue, if the main panel was down (it was again for the third time in a year) the whole place was unprotected. Edwards fireworx 3 zone panels (cheap!) only one zone for all the pulls/heats, the other two were sprinkler alarm and tamper. 28 panels in all.

Other than that no, I abhor conventional systems :)

Isn't a 3rd module required for supervisory (valve tampers)? Or is there an exception I don't know about?
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Isn't a 3rd module required for supervisory (valve tampers)? Or is there an exception I don't know about?

That's basically what it was. That was the old 14 year old system, one module for all the heats, pulls and flows, one for tampers and if the nac panel was there the trouble contact on that as well. The new system we did added the new 3 zone panel in each building: one WF zone, one pull/heat zone one tamper zone. We then installed 2 new modules one for alarm, the other was supervisory for the tampers.

To save money and since it was an existing property (AHJ didn't mind) we were allowed to run the alarm monitor module Eolr through the trouble contact. So the panel would show either 'building x fire alarm' or building x fire alarm trouble'. Not perfect but safe.

We also eliminated the need for the nac panels. Of course now there are 29 facp's not one. It's a safer design, not relying on a single panel with thousands of feet of underground cable. Surge suppression only goes so far and this place sits on ledge, so it was getting hit a lot.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Oh and I forgot to mention 95% of ahj's out here wouldn't know tampers are supervisory, not trouble, and probably don't know supervisory is an alarm, not a trouble.

And because of that ignorance, I lose jobs to other guys that just slap
Stuff in, knowing they can get away with it. I prefer to do it right the first time, since that's expensive...
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
That's basically what it was. That was the old 14 year old system, one module for all the heats, pulls and flows, one for tampers and if the nac panel was there the trouble contact on that as well. The new system we did added the new 3 zone panel in each building: one WF zone, one pull/heat zone one tamper zone. We then installed 2 new modules one for alarm, the other was supervisory for the tampers.

To save money and since it was an existing property (AHJ didn't mind) we were allowed to run the alarm monitor module Eolr through the trouble contact. So the panel would show either 'building x fire alarm' or building x fire alarm trouble'. Not perfect but safe.

We also eliminated the need for the nac panels. Of course now there are 29 facp's not one. It's a safer design, not relying on a single panel with thousands of feet of underground cable. Surge suppression only goes so far and this place sits on ledge, so it was getting hit a lot.

Do you now have 29 monitoring accounts as well? That's nice recurring revenue!
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Is there any code that limit the use of a panel per building? or one panel could be use for the whole complex with different zones for every building? The buildings are really small, 2 floors, 2 smoke heads and 3 heat det. per building, there are 7 building.

There's no problem in New Jersey. The real interesting part will be the alarm notification. If you have 2 floors per building, you have at least 14 notification zones. A Silent Knight 5820XL with two 5496 intelligent power supplies should cover you.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Do you now have 29 monitoring accounts as well? That's nice recurring revenue!

No, only if. The main panel has those modules in each building, that panel trips a master box. No one get monitoring. The office burg panel (no its not fire rated and we dont do the monitoring, the original installers do) monitors for alarm/trouble as a passive communicator, we're not allowed to dispatch fire alarms via central station when there is a radio box. Management/maintainence gets a call though.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
There's no problem in New Jersey. The real interesting part will be the alarm notification. If you have 2 floors per building, you have at least 14 notification zones. A Silent Knight 5820XL with two 5496 intelligent power supplies should cover you.


That's how I would do it with one panel, and I love using SK. Personally I like to see a dedicated panel on each building, one of those buildings could be the master panel. I say this so that there isn't a single point of failure. Even if the main panel dies the slave panel buildings would have a local alarm.

Again, not required, just a design choice. Bonus: it makes more money, I would write up the 3 panels as an option and sell it as safer.
 
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