1st stand by generator w/pics

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mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
Some of these photos represent threads I have recently started. In the first pic you see the main panel with the ats next to it. For those not familiar with generac stand by's, the ats comes with a 30' FMC whip that exits the top of the ats and runs out to the generator, which I had to extend. In addition there is a 2' LFMC that exits the side of the ats, which I had to shorten. Both of these modifications increased my time and materials considerably. The ats is completely wired from the factory so I had to pull out the conductors running from the ats to the main panel. I at first pulled them back in all together but the conductors looked terribly bunched up so I removed them and repulled them back in one pair at a time. In addition, if look closely at the top of the interior of the ats you'll see where the two egc's are terminated. Initially there were o-ring crimps on both but I had to replace one of the egc's with my own. (From the factory there is an inverted cup with four somewhat pointy tips that I assume bite through the enclosure's paint when tightened) I do not own a crimper that is capable of crimping a lug onto #8 so I used a garden variety lug and screwed it back in place along with the original one.
The next pic shows 1" emt exiting the ats, I struggled with what to use here. PVC or FMC crossed my mind first but settled on EMT due to the fact I don't own a hot box and figured the FMC would look crappy. I couldn't bend the emt in the basement, there wasn't enough room, so I had to run outside each time to make a bend or cut. Looking at the photo now I see I hadn't put a strap on the pipe as it crossed under the floor joist, I could have sworn I did, next time I'm there I'll throw one on it.
The 3rd pic is the oversized "C" I had started a thread about.
The 4th pic is the first of three splice boxes. The FMC exiting the left side of the 8x8 is the whip I removed from the ats. Do you like the $11 a piece Burndy's? This was the first time using them, they're pretty sweet, I also started a thread about retorquing, this is where that idea came from. (According to the Burndy website these have a wire range from 14-4 and the torque spec is 45 in-lbs. I couldn't believe had I been using #12 it is suggested I torque it to 45 in-lbs so I contacted Burndy. I asked what the torque spec would be for smaller gauges, for the hell of it, and the reply was something like, "The engineer says the spec is based on the set screw size and not the wire size". Huh? Every breaker, lug, ground bar I've ever seen had different specs for different wire sizes, just doesn't sound right to me) Although you can't see it in the pic, I bonded this box with a lay-in lug and then threw a big blue on the two #8 egc's. The only thing that concerned me with the inspector here was the control conductors I had pulled. One of those black #18 tffn's is a neutral but the supply houses don't cut the stuff so I had to either buy a 500' spool of it or just wrap some white tape around it, which as you can see that's what I did.
The 5th pic, here you see the other end of the 30' FMC entering the back of an outdoor rated 8x8. I really wanted to use those little insulated crimp caps on the control wires but I couldn't find them. Notice the double lug I used to bond this box.
The 6th pic is to show the aforementioned box and part of the factory supplied box mounted on that 6x4 post. A thread was also started about this section as I was contemplating just stringing a whip from one box to the other instead of going underground, but that was before I decided on moving the splice box to the location you now see it in. It was to be mounted a number of feet to the right bringing it closer to the gen.
The final pic shows the interior of the factory box. Originally there was an insulated block mounted to the back of this box. This block had three threaded posts that allowed you to run a nut down on top of the conductors which had o-ring type crimps on them. As you can see I removed all of it, would have been nice to use that block but again I don't have a crimper to do such work. I've looked online for such a crimper but I can't figure out which I would get, there's so many of them. Once again I had to use an addition lug to bond the eg. So what do you think, any and all critics are welcome. By the way, the ats is level but for some reason it appears that it's a bit crooked, it's an optical illusion rest assured ~
 

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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Because the premade whips did not work out without making modifications I assume you would have been better off (less labor and materials) providing your own power and control circuits?
 

BJ Conner

Senior Member
Location
97006
Clearance

Clearance

Looks a little tight, what are the dimensions?
That Burndy connector - is it an underground connector? Is it listed for use in a box?
 

mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
I would have ran SER and a 14-4 out to the jbox, then PVC and THWN to the generator... MO for me... I would have been done in half the time. :)

I agree 100% with your comments. I didn't mention it but using SER was the first thing to cross my mind when I looked at this job, but as you can see I decided against it. This may sound crazy but I wanted to do this one the "Hard" way. Most of the jobs I get to do are simple in nature, I wanted to do things I haven't done in awhile or have never done, profit wan't the top priority on this install. If I were to find myself doing a similar install I'd probably do the SER. The control circuit consists of five conductors so maybe 18/5 t-stat cable would work, although I'm unsure t-stat cable is rated for 120v, I'd have to check.
 

mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
Looks a little tight, what are the dimensions?
That Burndy connector - is it an underground connector? Is it listed for use in a box?

I assume you are speaking of that last box. It was tight, not sure of the dimensions. I was going to swap it out for a disconnect but the inspector said it was cool to leave the factory box so I did. I'm unsure if that Burndy is rated for underground use, I don't think it is, that's something to research. I'd have to believe the connector would be listed for use in such a box, are you suggesting it's possible it wouldn't? As I stated I checked their website for torque specs but I didn't see anything like, "This item not listed for use in a splice box".
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
The control circuit consists of five conductors so maybe 18/5 t-stat cable would work, although I'm unsure t-stat cable is rated for 120v, I'd have to check.

If you run it with your feeders it must have the same voltage rating for the insulation.
 

mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
It looks like the ground lug is elevated by a washer in one instance, and neither looks like paint was removed in both cases.

Hi there, those 8x8's have a raised bump in the back that is threaded. You can't see it but I did scrape the paint off, under the lug base, on both boxes.
 

mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
If you run it with your feeders it must have the same voltage rating for the insulation.

Indeed, the control conductors I pulled along with the feeder is of the tffn type which has a 600v rating. If I used SER then the control wiring would be in a separate cable naturally.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
I agree 100% with your comments. I didn't mention it but using SER was the first thing to cross my mind when I looked at this job, but as you can see I decided against it. This may sound crazy but I wanted to do this one the "Hard" way. Most of the jobs I get to do are simple in nature, I wanted to do things I haven't done in awhile or have never done, profit wan't the top priority on this install. If I were to find myself doing a similar install I'd probably do the SER. The control circuit consists of five conductors so maybe 18/5 t-stat cable would work, although I'm unsure t-stat cable is rated for 120v, I'd have to check.

Don't do it! Even if you ran it seperately, on the Generacs, several of the control wires (at least on the older ones) are 240 volt. The sense circuit and charger circuits are taken out to the generator.
 

mark32

Senior Member
Location
Currently in NJ
Don't do it! Even if you ran it seperately, on the Generacs, several of the control wires (at least on the older ones) are 240 volt. The sense circuit and charger circuits are taken out to the generator.

Hey Hillbilly, today I did some research and found that the t-stat cable I normally get is a CL2 rated cable, 150v's, but there is a CL3 t-stat cable available that's rated at 300v's so that, as far as I can tell, should work in the scenario I presented.

Peter D, good to see you here, I occasionally click on over to ET to see what you and MD Shunk are up to, still don't know why he was banned, he was a great contributor.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Hey Hillbilly, today I did some research and found that the t-stat cable I normally get is a CL2 rated cable, 150v's, but there is a CL3 t-stat cable available that's rated at 300v's so that, as far as I can tell, should work in the scenario I presented.

Peter D, good to see you here, I occasionally click on over to ET to see what you and MD Shunk are up to, still don't know why he was banned, he was a great contributor.

Thanks. :) I'm over at ET again and so is Marc.

For the record I think you did a nice job here, I just would have gone with PVC or SER as Stickboy suggested.
 

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
It looks like the JB is rotated 90 degrees. The cover will slide on sideways instead of dropping down on the elongated holes.

Really picking nits.

Mark
 

arnettda

Senior Member
I would have ran SER and a 14-4 out to the jbox, then PVC and THWN to the generator... MO for me... I would have been done in half the time. :)

I believe the installation manual says to use copper conductors. Does this mean all the way or Just in the wip from the Jbox outside to the generator?
 
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